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Topic: The Ukraine Topic

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Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #2086 on: May 08, 2022, 09:58:51 AM »
Why would Ukraine be influenced by something NATO is alleged to be wanting?  Zelensky has stated his terms for peace, and they are very far from what Putin would come anywhere close to accepting, so the point seems moot as to who wants what.  They will fight it out on this line if it takes all summer.


Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #2087 on: May 08, 2022, 10:07:36 AM »
Why would Ukraine be influenced by something NATO is alleged to be wanting?  Zelensky has stated his terms for peace, and they are very far from what Putin would come anywhere close to accepting, so the point seems moot as to who wants what.  They will fight it out on this line if it takes all summer.
you can't be this naive, Kay. 

Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #2088 on: May 08, 2022, 10:10:42 AM »
I don't find these "reports" of NATO blocking some peace agreement as being sensible nor probable, just rumor and innuendo, click bait in effect.

Somebody's second cousin's wife know a guy who heard from a policeman ....

Speaking of naive ...


longhorn320

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #2089 on: May 08, 2022, 10:13:54 AM »
I tend to agree with CD on this

If Ukraine and Russia reached a peace agreement it would be huge news and there would not be much anyone could do to stop it

but currently they are far apart in there terms so anything else really does not matter
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #2090 on: May 08, 2022, 10:37:58 AM »
I tend to agree with CD on this

If Ukraine and Russia reached a peace agreement it would be huge news and there would not be much anyone could do to stop it

but currently they are far apart in there terms so anything else really does not matter
Ukraine has effectively been a US colony post 2014- when the US helped overthrow the democratically elected President and install a hand-picked puppet.

Ukraine is entirely dependent on the US and to a much lesser extent the US' bitch boy/lapdog the UK. There is literally nothing that happens inside Ukraine right now without the US being involved. The US is arming, training, and not to mention funding the entire country. US gave them $14 billion since March, is about to give them another $33 billion- some of which will go to keeping govt employees paid and the govt functioning. Pelosi was just there like not even a week ago.

And the bigger issue here is the US backed sanction regime. Russia has less incentive to end hostilities if the US and it's bitch boys like the UK don't stop trying to crush it with sanctions and bans. Ukraine can't make the US end the economic war. They can't make the US do anything- they are the ones who are in effect a colony of the US- not the other way around.

Pretty clear they want to use Ukraine to fight a proxy war for one goal: regime change.

Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #2091 on: May 08, 2022, 10:39:41 AM »
I don't find these "reports" of NATO blocking some peace agreement as being sensible nor probable, just rumor and innuendo, click bait in effect.

Somebody's second cousin's wife know a guy who heard from a policeman ....

Speaking of naive ...
Yeah, you're still being naive Kay.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/05/5/7344206/

GopherRock

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #2092 on: May 08, 2022, 10:45:50 AM »
Vladimir Putin could end the economic war tomorrow by quitting the ground war. This whole thing started at his discrection, and likewise this whole thing can end at his discrection. 

Even if the Kremlin throws in the towel tomorrow, the damage has already been done. 

Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #2093 on: May 08, 2022, 11:00:14 AM »
Fred Kagan is from the dynastic neo-con Kagan clan- and is the brother-in law of high ranking US govt bureaucrat Victoria Nuland- who worked under the Bush II, Obama, and now Biden administrations- and helped engineer the 2014 coup in Ukraine and has been deeply involved inside Ukraine as of late as she is the fourth highest ranking official in the entire US state department.

Bill Kristol is - well he's just a scumbag that worked for Bush I and Bush II and is in general a giant piece of human filth that should be tried for war crimes for his role in pushing and leading the charge for this country to illegally invade Iraq- and was a right-wing nutjob neo-con who loved every war ever- who was a Republican his entire life until Donald Trump came a long and all of a sudden he's a "Resistance hero" and he's now openly a Democrat...weird.

they are saying the quite part out loud...


https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1523306332165599237?s=20&t=G4T_M7zmNY0RWy2_oOCiuQ

Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #2094 on: May 08, 2022, 11:02:59 AM »
Vladimir Putin could end the economic war tomorrow by quitting the ground war. This whole thing started at his discrection, and likewise this whole thing can end at his discrection.

Even if the Kremlin throws in the towel tomorrow, the damage has already been done.
you haven't been paying attention. The US doesn't want any negotiation. They haven't since before this thing started. They want complete surrender and they want regime change. And they'll use Ukraine until that country is completely and utterly destroyed and every last Ukrainian is dead to get what they want.

Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #2095 on: May 08, 2022, 11:47:13 AM »
Nobody can block an agreement that doesn't exist.

Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #2096 on: May 08, 2022, 02:49:20 PM »
I'm trying to imagine the negotiators meeting and somehow coming to an agreement, only to find the US has said "Nope".

I'm failing at that.  There is no agreement, they aren't even close to one.


GopherRock

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #2097 on: May 08, 2022, 03:02:25 PM »
When this is the Russian negotiating position 63 days into a 3 day war, there isn't much to negotiate. 


https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1522920978275356675?t=5otT2YqWi1Bh-59MLGPohA&s=19

Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #2098 on: May 09, 2022, 04:09:43 PM »
The US sees “anecdotal reports” of Russian troops and “mid-grade officers at various levels, even up to the battalion level” refusing to obey orders to move forward in the new Donbas offensive in Ukraine, according to a senior US defense official.
The official said these officers “have either refused to obey orders or are not obeying them with the same measure of alacrity that you would expect an officer to obey.”
Russian forces have struggled with widespread morale problems since the beginning of the invasion, according to this official, which is just one of numerous problems that has plagued the Russian military during this war.
Russian forces are also still facing logistics issues that are slowing their progress, according to the official.

If true, this could spread like wildfire.  IF.  I can see the rumor getting around and commanders finding reasons not to attack as ordered, creating some excuses for lack of movement, or perhaps letting it be known they shouldn't risk anything in any movement.  And this could be false information being spread by NATO to try and create this condition on the ground.



Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #2099 on: May 09, 2022, 04:12:07 PM »
The "Christmas Truce" in WW I almost ended the war, in a way, in 1914.  Troops on both sides fraternized between the lines in decent numbers.  This sort of thing could be more effective when both sides speak the same language.  I could see some cross the line communications where Russians inform Ukrainians they are ordered to attack "X" with artillery so clear out and then not follow up.  The engaged soldiers could start communicating and working out "a deal deal".

 

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