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Topic: You are the sports car

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FearlessF

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #280 on: August 12, 2019, 03:40:05 PM »
been working for the Mustang and the Vette for decades
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CWSooner

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #281 on: August 12, 2019, 04:09:15 PM »


1935 Auburn Boat-Tail Speedster
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FearlessF

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #282 on: August 12, 2019, 04:34:47 PM »
War Eagle!!!
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #283 on: August 12, 2019, 05:14:44 PM »
been working for the Mustang and the Vette for decades
History. You can't just fake it. The Mustang and the Vette weren't purchased for their technology, they were purchased because they were Mustangs and Corvettes. 

The Stealth/3000GT had no history. So it had to succeed or fail on its own merits. 

After we started this discussion, I started doing some reading, and one of the article was a comparison between a Nissan 300ZX and the Stealth Twin Turbo. Nissan has history. The 300ZX was the latest iteration of a platform that had been around since the Datsun days. The Stealth/3000GT was not. 

Nostalgia is a powerful thing.

utee94

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #284 on: August 12, 2019, 05:38:49 PM »
What are you talking about?  The Chrsyler Laser/Dodge Daytona had TONS of history... 

Just kidding.  But I did like my 86 Laser XT Turbo.  Chicks dug it, too.

SFBadger96

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #285 on: August 12, 2019, 05:46:18 PM »
Sure, but in 1964 there was no nostalgia for the Mustang, but it sold.

In 1954 there was no nostalgia for the Corvette--and the car went through a dramatic change in the 1960s, but remains the thing of dreams. Same for the Thunderbird, except that Ford's direction ended up killing that car.

It's curious what makes these things catch on.

The Jeep Cherokee caught on in a big way and changed the auto industry. The Prius, too.

Other cars of the late 80s/early 90s that were fun: the Pontiac Fiero died a quick death, despite out-selling the Toyota MR2, which lingered past its wearout date, but the Mazda Miata keeps going...

utee94

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #286 on: August 12, 2019, 07:38:08 PM »
Sure, but in 1964 there was no nostalgia for the Mustang, but it sold.

In 1954 there was no nostalgia for the Corvette--and the car went through a dramatic change in the 1960s, but remains the thing of dreams. Same for the Thunderbird, except that Ford's direction ended up killing that car.

It's curious what makes these things catch on.

The Jeep Cherokee caught on in a big way and changed the auto industry. The Prius, too.

Other cars of the late 80s/early 90s that were fun: the Pontiac Fiero died a quick death, despite out-selling the Toyota MR2, which lingered past its wearout date, but the Mazda Miata keeps going...

I think there are "golden eras" to certain things.  The conditions are just right, inertia builds to a head, and a product or idea-- or sport-- captures the public's attention in a way that it didn't before, and that it might not ever again.

I think the "golden era" for cars is past.  That's not to say that great cars aren't being made or can't be made, it's just that the general public's ability to fall in love with a car, is more limited now, than it was in the 1950s and 1960s.  There are a lot of reasons for that.  There's more diversity in the marketplace now than ever before, more niche products that satisfy niche consumers.  But that diversity also means there are fewer people available to fall in love with just ONE car, or just ONE classification of cars.

I also think that the love people feel for cars in general, has waned.  They were once a symbol of freedom and hope for a better life.  Especially sports cars and pony cars-- these played directly into the idea of the "open range."  But people have a more cynical and jaded view of cars now.  Many curse them for using precious resources frivolously.  Many believe they should not be fun, but take a more utilitarian view.  Gas isn't cheap anymore, oil is a finite resource, space is becoming more limited,  and the idea of the single-driver car is being attacked from multiple sides now.

All of that to say, I think the "golden era" of the auto is past.  We're not going to see automobiles capture a wide portion of the public's opinion in such an optimistic and breathtaking way.  You bring up the Cherokee and the Prius, which are both disruptive to be certain, but they did so based on their function, their utility-- not because they captured the imagination of drivers across the globe.

Just my $0.02 anyway.  I have similar views (but for different reasons of course) on the golden era of college football, and why the teams that rose to prominence in that era are still the helmets of today-- even if they struggle for decades-- and breaking into the helmets is extremely difficult and rare.


FearlessF

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #287 on: August 12, 2019, 07:48:02 PM »
gas is cheap

$2.26 per gallon at my pump

I'm guessing that even in the 70s when it was $0.49 it was relatively more expensive
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MrNubbz

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #288 on: August 12, 2019, 07:49:37 PM »
2.38 in N.E.Ohio
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CWSooner

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #289 on: August 12, 2019, 07:59:37 PM »
What are you talking about?  The Chrsyler Laser/Dodge Daytona had TONS of history...

Just kidding.  But I did like my 86 Laser XT Turbo.  Chicks dug it, too.
Maybe I am misperceiving what you're saying, but, in case I'm not, the Chrysler Laser/Dodge Daytona were not the same thing as the Mitsubishi 3000GT.
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FearlessF

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #290 on: August 12, 2019, 08:04:13 PM »
remember the 28 cents state of Ohio tax and the Fed of $0.184

30.5 cents state tax in Iowa

taxes certainly were not as high in 1975
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utee94

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #291 on: August 12, 2019, 08:07:21 PM »
Maybe I am misperceiving what you're saying, but, in case I'm not, the Chrysler Laser/Dodge Daytona were not the same thing as the Mitsubishi 3000GT.

Just bringing up other cars from the same parent companies with no history, C-Dubb.  I can see how it appears non-sequitur.  It was also meant to be a frivolous remark, but now that we're deep-diving it, any potential humor at all has been completely sucked out of it.... ;)

utee94

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #292 on: August 12, 2019, 08:13:15 PM »
Anyway, this is the Laser I had.  Black 1986 Chrysler Laser XT Turbo.  Mine had a black leather interior, not tan.  And it did not have rear louvers but had complete black-out window tint everywhere except the windshield.  It was fairly quick by mid 80s American standards, but would be a complete dog these days:




CWSooner

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #293 on: August 12, 2019, 08:19:46 PM »
Sure, but in 1964 there was no nostalgia for the Mustang, but it sold.

In 1954 there was no nostalgia for the Corvette--and the car went through a dramatic change in the 1960s, but remains the thing of dreams. Same for the Thunderbird, except that Ford's direction ended up killing that car.

It's curious what makes these things catch on.

The Jeep Cherokee caught on in a big way and changed the auto industry. The Prius, too.

Other cars of the late 80s/early 90s that were fun: the Pontiac Fiero died a quick death, despite out-selling the Toyota MR2, which lingered past its wearout date, but the Mazda Miata keeps going...
The Thunderbird--which was to some extent a response to the very unimpressive (6-cylinder, 2-speed automatic) '53-55 iteration of the Corvette--way outsold it.  In '57, the Thunderbird had a more powerful V8 engine, was faster, and outsold the Corvette 3-to-1.  But Robert McNamara--president of Ford Motor Division--decided to make it a 4-seater because that would expand the number of potential buyers.  And it did.  The '58-60 Thunderbird racked up four times the sales of the '55-57 edition.

McNamara was a bean-counter, and he couldn't see that Ford lost something that you just can't quantify when it lost the 2-seater Thunderbird.  His approach worked the same when as Secretary of Defense he tried to statistically manage the Vietnam War.

I think that GM has often not known (and sometimes not even cared about) what to do with the Corvette.  On one hand, it has dragged out making improvements for years, sometimes even decades, as we discussed earlier in the context of the 2020 mid-engined model.  On the other hand, it has let promising cars that might compete with the Corvette, die on the vine.  The Fiero is an example of that.  It had a 4-cylinder engine to keep its performance potential at a significantly lower level than that of the Vette, and little to no money went into developing it further once it hit production status.

Neither the Fiero nor the "Mister Two" had the FTD quotient that the Miata has always had.
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