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Topic: You are the sports car

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #56 on: July 30, 2019, 01:34:08 PM »
better take that "stay back 300 feet" warning seriously with thing one. looks like you'll be eating bugs and rocks.
Much like a motorcycle, I think it's prudent to wear a helmet when driving one of those.

You know it's not really related to the 427 Cobra, right?  That Cobra was a whole different animal--different frame, different body, different suspension--from the original 289 version, which is what the Daytona was under the skin.
Convertibles are generally sexier than coupes--but I think the Daytona is very sexy, sexier than a 289 Cobra.
Did you read the whole article?
I'll admit I didn't read the article. 

My point was more that the Daytona Coupe is a legit racecar. It was designed for racing.

The Cobra was a race car, of course, but it started as a little British roadster. Then Americans said "let's put a big honkin' engine in it and see what we come up with". And they raced it, because it's Carroll Shelby. He'd race a soapbox derby car if he could fit a V8 in it. 

But now we're 50 years on from then, and the Daytona Coupe is still only a racecar. 50 year old race cars don't age well, they're more museum pieces rather than driveable. Whereas the Cobra is still a roadster, something to look good in and burn some tire smoke. 

Which is why I started by admitting that for what it is, the Daytona Coupe is superior. It was the racecar that the Cobra couldn't quite be. It's sexy in its own way; because it's incredibly rare, has a racing pedigree that the Cobra can't match, and is more capable as a racecar.

But I know which one I'd rather have in my garage [and out on the road, not just rubbed with a diaper]. 

rolltidefan

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #57 on: July 30, 2019, 01:38:59 PM »
Much like a motorcycle, I think it's prudent to wear a helmet when driving one of those.
my brother used to have a dune buggy made from an old vw beetle. we didn't wear helmets, just eyewear (mostly for the sun, though). that's probably much worse than in that car. we were idiots.

edit: something along the lines of this, though i don't remember his having a windshield.

TyphonInc

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #58 on: July 30, 2019, 01:39:17 PM »


I could be either of these.

Cincydawg

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #59 on: July 30, 2019, 01:43:39 PM »
I'm still kind of amazed at how the manual transmission is disappearing.  I would have expected the internal combustion reciprocating piston in cylinder to disappear long before that happened.

I don't think any of the "supercars" offer a manual any more.  One of the Porches added it back as an extra cost option.

CWSooner

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #60 on: July 30, 2019, 01:45:30 PM »
My working definition was:

two seats only
convertible as an option
independent rear suspension
manual transmission option at least, this one has disappeared of late of course

The Brit versions like the MG were under powered with poor brakes and mediocre handling even for the time aside from the Jag and perhaps the TR6.
Your IRS requirement would disqualify a bunch of traditional sports cars, CD.
All the classic MGs, Austin-Healys, and Triumphs (until the TR4A, which had IRS).
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utee94

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #61 on: July 30, 2019, 01:46:10 PM »
my brother used to have a dune buggy made from an old vw beetle. we didn't wear helmets, just eyewear (mostly for the sun, though). that's probably much worse than in that car. we were idiots.

edit: something along the lines of this, though i don't remember his having a windshield.


My cousin used to buy up and convert VW bugs and convert them into Baja bugs, like this one.  He was 19/20 and I was 10.  I thought it was the coolest thing and I absolutely wanted one.  Several were a lot like this:  





Cincydawg

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #62 on: July 30, 2019, 01:50:50 PM »
Your IRS requirement would disqualify a bunch of traditional sports cars, CD.
All the classic MGs, Austin-Healys, and Triumphs (until the TR4A, which had IRS).
Yeah, I know.  That's why I added it in as my criterion.  It also eliminates the pony cars until a few years ago.


CWSooner

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #63 on: July 30, 2019, 02:01:50 PM »
Much like a motorcycle, I think it's prudent to wear a helmet when driving one of those.
I'll admit I didn't read the article.

My point was more that the Daytona Coupe is a legit racecar. It was designed for racing.

The Cobra was a race car, of course, but it started as a little British roadster. Then Americans said "let's put a big honkin' engine in it and see what we come up with". And they raced it, because it's Carroll Shelby. He'd race a soapbox derby car if he could fit a V8 in it.

But now we're 50 years on from then, and the Daytona Coupe is still only a racecar. 50 year old race cars don't age well, they're more museum pieces rather than driveable. Whereas the Cobra is still a roadster, something to look good in and burn some tire smoke.

Which is why I started by admitting that for what it is, the Daytona Coupe is superior. It was the racecar that the Cobra couldn't quite be. It's sexy in its own way; because it's incredibly rare, has a racing pedigree that the Cobra can't match, and is more capable as a racecar.

But I know which one I'd rather have in my garage [and out on the road, not just rubbed with a diaper].
Perhaps surprisingly, there's a thriving business in manufacturing licensed, authentic reproduction Daytona Coupes.  As there were only six originals made, anyone you see would be one of those reproductions.  I saw one at a Shelby show in Tulsa a few years ago.
Most any Cobra you see will be a reproduction as well, and probably not a very authentic one.  What you mostly see are reproduction/replica 427 Cobras with small-block engines in them, often Ford 351s.  And if it's got a big block in it, it's probably a 428 rather than a 427.  There were about 600 289 Cobras and only 56 427 Cobras originally built.  (Some small number of that 56 had 428s in them.)

You make a good point about race car vs. sports car.  Shelby sold Cobras to people who had no intention of racing them (the 428 Cobras, for example), whereas the Daytona was designed and the original six were built only for racing.  An authentic reproduction of one would not be a satisfactory car to drive on the street.
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FearlessF

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #64 on: July 30, 2019, 02:21:17 PM »
I'm still kind of amazed at how the manual transmission is disappearing.  I would have expected the internal combustion reciprocating piston in cylinder to disappear long before that happened.

I don't think any of the "supercars" offer a manual any more.  One of the Porches added it back as an extra cost option.
obviously it's a matter of performance

A human can't shift as well as a machine/computer

the other matter is cost of manufacturing and installing a manual option - production costs
I'd let the aftermarket shops install manuals
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CWSooner

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #65 on: July 30, 2019, 02:23:47 PM »
Going from automatic tranny to manual is a much bigger deal mechanically than going from manual to automatic.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #66 on: July 30, 2019, 02:33:38 PM »
Perhaps surprisingly, there's a thriving business in manufacturing licensed, authentic reproduction Daytona Coupes.  As there were only six originals made, anyone you see would be one of those reproductions.  I saw one at a Shelby show in Tulsa a few years ago.
Most any Cobra you see will be a reproduction as well, and probably not a very authentic one.  What you mostly see are reproduction/replica 427 Cobras with small-block engines in them, often Ford 351s.  And if it's got a big block in it, it's probably a 428 rather than a 427.  There were about 600 289 Cobras and only 56 427 Cobras originally built.  (Some small number of that 56 had 428s in them.)

You make a good point about race car vs. sports car.  Shelby sold Cobras to people who had no intention of racing them (the 428 Cobras, for example), whereas the Daytona was designed and the original six were built only for racing.  An authentic reproduction of one would not be a satisfactory car to drive on the street.

Agreed. And frankly if I get a Cobra without hitting a major lottery, it will be a replica. Which quite frankly is fine, as a good replica will probably be a much better vehicle in most ways than the original. And a lot less stressful to drive.

Plus, since I probably won't physically fit into an original Cobra OR Daytona anyway, a replica built for my stature is probably the only thing I could even drive.

If I hit the big-time lottery, I'd get an amazing replica AND an original though. :)

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #67 on: July 30, 2019, 02:35:06 PM »
I know an automatic is better, but there's something I miss every time I drive a vehicle with an automatic.

My Jeep Wrangler with 6-spd manual is slow, and it would be equally slow but probably more efficient with the automatic, but it would be nowhere near as FUN.

rolltidefan

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #68 on: July 30, 2019, 02:35:49 PM »
My cousin used to buy up and convert VW bugs and convert them into Baja bugs, like this one.  He was 19/20 and I was 10.  I thought it was the coolest thing and I absolutely wanted one.  Several were a lot like this: 





it was amazingly fun. we lived on lake tuscaloosa and during a particularly bad drought we took it out on the mud banks. was about 2-3" of slick mud and then hard foundation, so you just slide around all over the place slinging mud everywhere. so much fun.
riding on the road was... less fun. but we had to get there somehow.

CWSooner

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Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #69 on: July 30, 2019, 03:17:13 PM »
Yeah, I know.  That's why I added it in as my criterion.  It also eliminates the pony cars until a few years ago.
Yeah.

Or it would if pony cars were sports cars.  ;)

I guess the general consensus has arrived at a definition that has nothing to do with the original one.  Sports cars were 2-seat open cars that were fun to drive, and were faster and handled better than the sedans from which they took a lot of their parts, like engines, transmissions, suspensions, steering gear, etc.
By that definition, a sports car is compared to its contemporaries, not to supercars of today.
I stick to that definition, so, for me, an 80-mph MG-TC of 1947, the car that caused the "sports car craze" in America, is a sports car, while the 301-mph Hennesy Venom F5 is not.




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