header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: You are the sports car

 (Read 28670 times)

CWSooner

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 6045
  • Liked:
Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #308 on: August 13, 2019, 12:19:15 PM »
A lot of cars back then were junk.  I can't think of a really bad new car today, some of the Dodge's don't impress me, but I wouldn't consider them junk.

There are cars I don't like because they favor form over function at a high price like the Mini Cooper and the Fiat 500, but they are not junk, IMHO.

I don't like the Camaro because you can't see out of it, it feels like being in a vault.  I was considering a convertible when the wife said she wanted one.  Fortunately she backed off that request.  My preference was a BMW 240i but they get expensive in a hurry.  I like that car a lot.  We both like the GTI, but we rarely have the sun roof open, which is a sign I think we'd rarely have the top down with a convertible.  I wouldn't put the top down to go to the store. 

I've had rental Mustang convertibles, the last was the 4 cylinder with the 10 speed.  It was fun in CA to have the top down but I didn't not like how it drove.  It seemed very down on power, and yes it likely had regular grade gas in it, but it was slow.  The transmission seemed confused often as not.

I'd prefer the Mustang over the Camaro for practical reasons even though the Camaro drives better on a track.

Yeah, I'd track it about once in a never.
Coyote V8 with 6-speed manual beats Ecoboost I4 with 10-speed self-shifter.
Play Like a Champion Today

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12140
  • Liked:
Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #309 on: August 13, 2019, 12:23:12 PM »
Yeah, I always thought this about those auto companies tacked on at the end of those dealerships....like Southland Dodge-Chrysler-Jeep-Eagle......who the hell drove an Eagle car?  I don't think I've ever seen one.  What else seemed generic.....Mercury!?!  Never knew anyone who drove a Mercury anything, and it was the subject of a country song, I believe.

Definitely those 2 - Eagle and Mercury, to me, seemed like a WTF thing that I couldn't understand existing.
They were the stripped-down brands. 

Heck, in some ways they may have existed solely to give Ford and Dodge more brand equity. Kind of like restaurants that don't have a small and a large soda, they have a medium and a large. You only need to offer a small to make the medium seem better. 

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12140
  • Liked:
Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #310 on: August 13, 2019, 12:29:57 PM »
I used to travel to Southern California a lot for work.  Newport Beach, San Diego, a little bit to Malibu.  I stopped renting convertibles there, because it was too cold to drive them with the top down, even in the summer.  A few hours midday were okay but since I was working during the weekdays, that really only meant a couple hours on Saturday and Sunday.
I think a bit differently on this one. Part of it might be that I grew up in the Midwest, so "cold" for me isn't the same thing that it is for people who grew up in the southern US. But I drive my Jeep nearly year-round.

While it's not my daily driver, I have now removed the top from the Jeep. I have a little bimini top for it in case I'll be driving enough to need sun protection, but it's an open-air vehicle regardless. It's very rarely too cold to drive it, with the exception of maybe December-February and only if I need to drive it in the morning/evening. 

Obviously there are things you do to mitigate. In the winter, I'll often have the windows up and the heater running, and wear a little quarter-zip pullover sweatshirt. In the summer, I really don't need anything. When I leave for work it's in the 60s at worst, but the bigger problem in the summer is that unless I'm traveling at a decent rate of speed during the middle of the day, it's more that I use the A/C to avoid being too hot. 

tl;dr version: It's not too cold here for a convertible unless you're a wuss. 

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12140
  • Liked:
Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #311 on: August 13, 2019, 01:12:34 PM »
I think there are "golden eras" to certain things.  The conditions are just right, inertia builds to a head, and a product or idea-- or sport-- captures the public's attention in a way that it didn't before, and that it might not ever again.

I think the "golden era" for cars is past.  That's not to say that great cars aren't being made or can't be made, it's just that the general public's ability to fall in love with a car, is more limited now, than it was in the 1950s and 1960s.  There are a lot of reasons for that.  There's more diversity in the marketplace now than ever before, more niche products that satisfy niche consumers.  But that diversity also means there are fewer people available to fall in love with just ONE car, or just ONE classification of cars.

I also think that the love people feel for cars in general, has waned.  They were once a symbol of freedom and hope for a better life.  Especially sports cars and pony cars-- these played directly into the idea of the "open range."  But people have a more cynical and jaded view of cars now.  Many curse them for using precious resources frivolously.  Many believe they should not be fun, but take a more utilitarian view.  Gas isn't cheap anymore, oil is a finite resource, space is becoming more limited,  and the idea of the single-driver car is being attacked from multiple sides now.

All of that to say, I think the "golden era" of the auto is past.  We're not going to see automobiles capture a wide portion of the public's opinion in such an optimistic and breathtaking way.  You bring up the Cherokee and the Prius, which are both disruptive to be certain, but they did so based on their function, their utility-- not because they captured the imagination of drivers across the globe.

Just my $0.02 anyway.  I have similar views (but for different reasons of course) on the golden era of college football, and why the teams that rose to prominence in that era are still the helmets of today-- even if they struggle for decades-- and breaking into the helmets is extremely difficult and rare.
I do think that individual vehicles have to hit the right "mindset" at the right time to catch the public's love. 

I think the Mustang hit the market at a very hopeful time for the US. We had the space program in full swing. It was before the late 60's struggles of the Civil Rights era and then Vietnam really took its toll on the American psyche. It was part of the postwar economic boom. The earliest of the baby boomers were turning 18 years old, and those right behind them were probably looking for "aspirational" products, but also attainable ones, and most of those in their early 20's weren't really of age during WWII to really have understood it. It seemed the world was their oyster and everything was sunshine.

You drop a little, sporty, stylish, affordable car right in their laps at just the right time? It caught fire. It created a new class of vehicle.

The same was true of the Cherokee. It wasn't really the first true SUV, but it was perhaps the one that hit at the right time in the market to not be a "utility" vehicle but to be a "car/van replacement vehicle", and accessible to the everyman. It popularized a whole new class of vehicle.

That's hard to do. It's hard to be new and be successful. Even many of our unique and successful cars are nostalgia... When the VW Bug was re-introduced, it was a throwback. When the Mini was re-introduced, it was a throwback. Those were both successful, but they trade on their history. Even the Miata, which grabbed a very unique and niche part of the market, wasn't "new". It's basically a little British roadster that just happens to be made by a Japanese company. Nothing about it was truly "new" like the Mustang or the Cherokee.

The same is true of the Prius. It appealed to environmentalists and frugal types who wanted to reduce gas consumption, but it's not that unique of a vehicle. It's basically just a small hatchback which gets great mileage. 

The one recent one that I think has really "caught" has been Tesla. While the form factors of the cars aren't new, the performance envelope in which they operate is basically sports car territory in sedan/crossover bodies. At the same time, their one-screen operation (which I hate the entire idea of--I want buttons for common features so I can operate the car without looking away from the road) and OTA updates are unique. The people who love Tesla REALLY love Tesla.

But I agree that part of this might be a fleeting thing. The "golden era" of the automobile is largely contingent on the driving characteristics of a vehicle. I think that if automaters fully solve the autonomous problem, most of what we use to differentiate vehicles will go away. If I'm not the one pressing the accelerator, do I really care if goes 0-60 in 4 seconds or 8? If I'm not the one turning the steering wheel, do I really care how well it corners? 

Automakers, with autonomy, might be engineering themselves out of the most interesting parts of their jobs--designing something that's different than what other companies are making. 

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17625
  • Liked:
Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #312 on: August 13, 2019, 02:42:43 PM »
I think a bit differently on this one. Part of it might be that I grew up in the Midwest, so "cold" for me isn't the same thing that it is for people who grew up in the southern US. But I drive my Jeep nearly year-round.

While it's not my daily driver, I have now removed the top from the Jeep. I have a little bimini top for it in case I'll be driving enough to need sun protection, but it's an open-air vehicle regardless. It's very rarely too cold to drive it, with the exception of maybe December-February and only if I need to drive it in the morning/evening.

Obviously there are things you do to mitigate. In the winter, I'll often have the windows up and the heater running, and wear a little quarter-zip pullover sweatshirt. In the summer, I really don't need anything. When I leave for work it's in the 60s at worst, but the bigger problem in the summer is that unless I'm traveling at a decent rate of speed during the middle of the day, it's more that I use the A/C to avoid being too hot.

tl;dr version: It's not too cold here for a convertible unless you're a wuss.

Ha!

If you need to turn on the A/C in Southern California to avoid being too hot, then you really don't have any room for calling other folks a wuss. 

I stand by my statement.  Convertibles are useless in California, unless of course you have no job and can drive around midday, 7 days per week.  In that case, then they might be useful in the months of July and August.  But still not worth the time or hassle involved.

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17625
  • Liked:
Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #313 on: August 13, 2019, 02:46:52 PM »
And I'll add that I'm speaking specifically about Coastal areas here.  It's certainly plenty hot in The Valley, but who on earth would actually want to drive around in The Valley?


SFBadger96

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 1243
  • Liked:
Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #314 on: August 13, 2019, 03:08:33 PM »
So, if you had $80,000 to spend on a "sports car" today, a new one however defined, what would you buy?

You can't keep the change. 

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/g4277/the-13-best-cars-under-100000-dollars/?slide=18

Some of the options available, using the term loosely.

As noted before, I think I'd lean to a Cayman S pretty well equipped.

The new "Vette would get my attention also.


I would think very seriously about the Corvette and the Mustang Shelby GT350. Despite living in NorCal, where it's really cold for a convertible, I know SFIrish would love one, so I'd also think pretty seriously about the Mustang GT, and the Mazda MX-5.

All those European cars would be nice, but in the end I think I'd pass on the Corvette, too, as too fancy for my style, and likely end up with a convertible Mustang GT.

CWSooner

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 6045
  • Liked:
Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #315 on: August 13, 2019, 03:13:03 PM »
They were the stripped-down brands.

Heck, in some ways they may have existed solely to give Ford and Dodge more brand equity. Kind of like restaurants that don't have a small and a large soda, they have a medium and a large. You only need to offer a small to make the medium seem better.
I don't remember where Eagle stood in the Chrysler Corp. hierarchy of brands, but Mercury was not stripped down, but rather was gussied up.  Mercurys had different, more "luxurious" styling than Fords did, and they came with a higher level of standard equipment.  They were between Ford and Lincoln.
The infamous Edsel of 1958-60 was an attempt to shoehorn another brand in between Mercury and Lincoln.
Play Like a Champion Today

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37407
  • Liked:
Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #316 on: August 13, 2019, 03:18:10 PM »
So, if you had $80,000 to spend on a "sports car" today, a new one however defined, what would you buy?

You can't keep the change. 

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/g4277/the-13-best-cars-under-100000-dollars/?slide=18

Some of the options available, using the term loosely.

As noted before, I think I'd lean to a Cayman S pretty well equipped.

The new "Vette would get my attention also.


I'd go with the mid engine Vette today.  

The Caddy was $86,000

The Mercedes-AMG C63 S and the Porsche Cayman S would be more practical choices and very fine, but I want to enjoy the Vette just once while I can still get in and out.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

CWSooner

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 6045
  • Liked:
Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #317 on: August 13, 2019, 03:23:43 PM »
Shelby GT350.
Play Like a Champion Today

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37407
  • Liked:
Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #318 on: August 13, 2019, 03:24:39 PM »
you're a Ford guy
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

CWSooner

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 6045
  • Liked:
Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #319 on: August 13, 2019, 03:27:15 PM »
you're a Ford guy
In my dotage, I seem to have become one.
Long ago, I was a traditional sports car guy, and as I coudn't afford a Corvette, that meant foreign cars.
Play Like a Champion Today

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37407
  • Liked:
Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #320 on: August 13, 2019, 03:29:37 PM »
I like German cars.  Not much else from Europe.

Obviously I'm a Chevy guy when it comes to domestic

I'm too old and come from a time when Japanese cars were frowned upon
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12140
  • Liked:
Re: You are the sports car
« Reply #321 on: August 13, 2019, 03:32:01 PM »
Ha!

If you need to turn on the A/C in Southern California to avoid being too hot, then you really don't have any room for calling other folks a wuss.

I stand by my statement.  Convertibles are useless in California, unless of course you have no job and can drive around midday, 7 days per week.  In that case, then they might be useful in the months of July and August.  But still not worth the time or hassle involved.
LOL... I guess I'm just attuned to cold, while you're attuned to hot. 

But I also stand by my statement. It's rare that it's "too cold" in SoCal for a convertible, unless you just have an inordinate amount of hatred for the cold. IMHO anything north of 60 degrees is acceptable for a convertible.

If you look at the typical weather (this is for John Wayne Airport) average nightly lows are >=58 from May through October. I'd say that for most people, by the time you get into the car in the morning, it should be above 60. Worst case (if you hate the cold) you keep the windows up and run the heat a little. And in the summer, when the days are longer, it'll still be quite nice on your evening commute home. 

For me, I'm happy in the Jeep from March through November, because I like the cold. I'll occasionally drive it on exceptionally nice days Dec->Feb, but it's rare. 

That said, I think convertibles are oddly less common here than I've seen in the Midwest. I personally think that's because we're spoiled by such constant sunshine in SoCal that we don't really need to drive around topless just to enjoy a rare sunny day. But it's certainly not because it's "too cold" for a convertible here. 

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.