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Topic: World Cup 2026

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utee94

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Re: World Cup 2026
« Reply #84 on: June 26, 2026, 11:34:32 AM »
I Google'd the result utee referenced, and got this from AI:

The United States Men's National Team (USMNT) fell to an already-eliminated Turkey 3-2 in their final Group D match at the 2026 FIFA World Cup.  Despite the last-minute defeat, the US had already secured the top spot in their group and advances to the Round of 32.

For those of us who don't follow or understand soccer, could somebody explain why an eliminated team is still playing games, and what the consequences are for a team losing to a team that's already eliminated? 
World Cup turnament, and other tournaments like it, start with "Group Play."  Generally it's 4 teams per group, and the top 2 teams (sometimes top 3) advance beyond group play, into elimination play.  In group play, much like most soccer leagues around the world, you get 3 points for a win, 1 point for a draw, and 0 points for a loss.  Highest point-earners advance to the elimination round.

Based on their finishing spot in the group, they are paired up against teams from other groups, in the elimination round.  So in the first elimination round, the team that finishes #1 in one group, will play a team that finished #2 (or even #3) in its group.  From that point on it's a single elimination tournament.

So based on its two previous victories in its group, and also based on the results of the other 3 teams in the group versus each other, the USA had already clinched the #1 spot.  Which means the result of that game was irrelevant for the USA.  Which is why the USA coach thought it was okay to play a different lineup, in order to get some new guys some experience in the Cup, and also to rest some injured players, and also to rest some players who had yellow cards from the previous match.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2026, 11:40:04 AM by utee94 »

MikeDeTiger

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Re: World Cup 2026
« Reply #85 on: June 26, 2026, 11:39:05 AM »
So I guess my question is, if the USA has already clinched the #1 spot in its group, Turkey is already eliminated, and the game doesn't matter either way, why play that game?  

Seems an odd format to me.  It'd be like the CWS having a bracket winner play one of the eliminated teams for grins and giggles.  

utee94

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Re: World Cup 2026
« Reply #86 on: June 26, 2026, 11:40:54 AM »
So I guess my question is, if the USA has already clinched the #1 spot in its group, Turkey is already eliminated, and the game doesn't matter either way, why play that game? 

Seems an odd format to me.  It'd be like the CWS having a bracket winner play one of the eliminated teams for grins and giggles. 
Because every team gets 3 games, the schedule is established months or years in advance.  They have no idea at that point, who's going to win, and who's going to lose.

In college baseball terms, you can think of Group Play more like those early season invitational tournaments.  Like say, LSU, Texas, and Washington, all travel to a tournament in Honolulu at host-team Hawaii.  Except it's not set up a a tournament, but rather as a roundrobin, where every team plays every other team, there's no elimination. Hawaii would potentially go 0-3 in that tournament, but they're guaranteed all three games regardless.

SFBadger96

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Re: World Cup 2026
« Reply #87 on: June 26, 2026, 11:44:59 AM »
Of note, since Brazil did it in 2002, no team that has won the world cup has won all of its group stage games. This isn't that big of a deal. Argentina lost to Saudi Arabia in a game that actually mattered (their first) in the group stage last time around. No one cared once they got to the knockout stages. The U.S. B-team lost to Turkey in a meaningless game (for both teams), where Turkey was playing for pride, and the U.S. B-team was playing to avoid injury. Did they want to win? Of course they did. Did losing on a last second goal leave a bitter taste in their mouths? Sure did. Is it possible that it will give them extra motivation for the Bosnia Herzgovinia game coming on Wednesday? Yes, it's possible. As Tim Howard said on his socials this morning: relax; that game didn't matter, and in some ways losing the way they did may help them.

The game that matters is on July 1.

jgvol

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Re: World Cup 2026
« Reply #88 on: June 26, 2026, 11:46:17 AM »
So I guess my question is, if the USA has already clinched the #1 spot in its group, Turkey is already eliminated, and the game doesn't matter either way, why play that game? 

Seems an odd format to me.  It'd be like the CWS having a bracket winner play one of the eliminated teams for grins and giggles. 

Sold tickets, full stadiums.......money.

And just because it's fun.

I am really enjoying this World Cup, and I think the USA is doing a bang up job hosting it.  

ELA

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Re: World Cup 2026
« Reply #89 on: June 26, 2026, 11:48:04 AM »
Of note, since Brazil did it in 2002, no team that has won the world cup has won all of its group stage games. This isn't that big of a deal. Argentina lost to Saudi Arabia in a game that actually mattered (their first) in the group stage last time around. No one cared once they got to the knockout stages. The U.S. B-team lost to Turkey in a meaningless game (for both teams), where Turkey was playing for pride, and the U.S. B-team was playing to avoid injury. Did they want to win? Of course they did. Did losing on a last second goal leave a bitter taste in their mouths? Sure did. Is it possible that it will give them extra motivation for the Bosnia Herzgovinia game coming on Wednesday? Yes, it's possible. As Tim Howard said on his socials this morning: relax; that game didn't matter, and in some ways losing the way they did may help them.

The game that matters is on July 1.
I also heard they had 4 guys who were one yellow card away from having to sit the next match, but those reset after group play, so the also wanted to avoid those guys picking up a yellow

utee94

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Re: World Cup 2026
« Reply #90 on: June 26, 2026, 11:48:21 AM »
Of note, since Brazil did it in 2002, no team that has won the world cup has won all of its group stage games. This isn't that big of a deal. Argentina lost to Saudi Arabia in a game that actually mattered (their first) in the group stage last time around. No one cared once they got to the knockout stages. The U.S. B-team lost to Turkey in a meaningless game (for both teams), where Turkey was playing for pride, and the U.S. B-team was playing to avoid injury. Did they want to win? Of course they did. Did losing on a last second goal leave a bitter taste in their mouths? Sure did. Is it possible that it will give them extra motivation for the Bosnia Herzgovinia game coming on Wednesday? Yes, it's possible. As Tim Howard said on his socials this morning: relax; that game didn't matter, and in some ways losing the way they did may help them.

The game that matters is on July 1.
Yeah agree with all of this.  

The game didn't matter but I still wanted to see the USMNT come out and dominate.  The loss, and especially the manner of the loss, leaves a very bitter taste.  And I'm just a fan-- I can only imagine how the US players feel about it.

utee94

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Re: World Cup 2026
« Reply #91 on: June 26, 2026, 11:49:30 AM »
I also heard they had 4 guys who were one yellow card away from having to sit the next match, but those reset after group play, so the also wanted to avoid those guys picking up a yellow
Yup, the yellow cards affected the lineup, as did Puli's injury.  Even when he came on later in the game, I suspect he wasn't playing at 100%.

jgvol

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Re: World Cup 2026
« Reply #92 on: June 26, 2026, 11:54:02 AM »
Yup, the yellow cards affected the lineup, as did Puli's injury.  Even when he came on later in the game, I suspect he wasn't playing at 100%.

Even still not 100%, he provided some energy and a boost.  I hope he gets to 100% -- could be a real difference maker.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: World Cup 2026
« Reply #93 on: June 26, 2026, 11:54:13 AM »
Yeah agree with all of this. 

The game didn't matter but I still wanted to see the USMNT come out and dominate.  The loss, and especially the manner of the loss, leaves a very bitter taste.  And I'm just a fan-- I can only imagine how the US players feel about it.
Exactly this.   We can say this game doesn’t matter, and maybe in the end it won’t, but let’s be honest about it. The US looked pretty shaky at times and had momentum before this game. The question is will they have good momentum or bad mojo after this game.  
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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jgvol

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Re: World Cup 2026
« Reply #94 on: June 26, 2026, 11:56:10 AM »
Exactly this.  We can say this game doesn’t matter, and maybe in the end it won’t, but let’s be honest about it. The US looked pretty shaky at times and had momentum before this game. The question is will they have good momentum or bad mojo after this game. 

Hopefully it will serve as an eye opener, after riding high, and getting the hype after the first two matches.

Believe in yourselves, but a clunker is possible if you aren't locked in.

bayareabadger

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Re: World Cup 2026
« Reply #95 on: June 26, 2026, 12:03:46 PM »
I Google'd the result utee referenced, and got this from AI:

The United States Men's National Team (USMNT) fell to an already-eliminated Turkey 3-2 in their final Group D match at the 2026 FIFA World Cup.  Despite the last-minute defeat, the US had already secured the top spot in their group and advances to the Round of 32.

For those of us who don't follow or understand soccer, could somebody explain why an eliminated team is still playing games, and what the consequences are for a team losing to a team that's already eliminated? 
A. They play groups stages. So like little divisions, not a tournament. It’s the same reason all the NFL teams play on the last week of the regular season. 

B. I don’t think there’s any penalty? If they clinched their group, I think it doesn’t affect too much going forward. 

MikeDeTiger

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Re: World Cup 2026
« Reply #96 on: June 26, 2026, 12:09:30 PM »
Because every team gets 3 games, the schedule is established months or years in advance.  They have no idea at that point, who's going to win, and who's going to lose.

In college baseball terms, you can think of Group Play more like those early season invitational tournaments.  Like say, LSU, Texas, and Washington, all travel to a tournament in Honolulu at host-team Hawaii.  Except it's not set up a a tournament, but rather as a roundrobin, where every team plays every other team, there's no elimination. Hawaii would potentially go 0-3 in that tournament, but they're guaranteed all three games regardless.

Okay, so if I understand correctly, this isn't strictly a tournament finale to a season, it's more like it has some "regular season" included in it.  All the teams play a set number of games no matter what, see how things shake out, then advance (or not) from there.  Kind of like the regular season + post-season in sports I'm familiar with.  

utee94

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Re: World Cup 2026
« Reply #97 on: June 26, 2026, 12:17:34 PM »
Okay, so if I understand correctly, this isn't strictly a tournament finale to a season, it's more like it has some "regular season" included in it.  All the teams play a set number of games no matter what, see how things shake out, then advance (or not) from there.  Kind of like the regular season + post-season in sports I'm familiar with. 
Yeah, sure.  It's a VERY short "regular season" of only 3 games, but yeah, it's a pool play and not elimination play, for those first 3 games.

But also, every country has gone through an extensive round of games and tournaments just to qualify for the World Cup.  Not every country in the world gets in.  This year 48 countries got in, which is expanded from the 32 teams that previously made it in.  There are various soccer "federations" around the world, which you can think of loosely as "continents."  Each federation/continent/geo has games and tournaments to determine which teams will make it into the World Cup, and which teams will sit home.

Right now, sort of infamously, Italy is sitting home and didn't make the World Cup tournament.  This is the 3rd World Cup in a row they failed to qualify for, which is pretty shocking for a country that historically has been quite successful and has won 4 of them total, which ties them for second place all-time

 

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