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Topic: VOTE: What will ND end up doing?

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FearlessF

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Re: VOTE: What will ND end up doing?
« Reply #98 on: July 05, 2022, 10:35:57 PM »
why do you or should you try to play the other teams in a 20 team conference?

10 teams in a division - 9 conference games.  Round robin schedule for the division.  The winners of each division meet in the champ game.

the winner of the champ game plays the winner of the SEC for the MNC
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Hawkinole

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Re: VOTE: What will ND end up doing?
« Reply #99 on: July 06, 2022, 12:14:43 AM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on July 05, 2022, 09:52:57 AM
@Hawkinole has mentioned this Iowa/ND rivalry and it is something I had never heard of other than in his posts on this board so I looked up the history. They have played 24 times with Notre Dame holding a 13-8-3 advantage:

  • Iowa won the first three, a one-off in Iowa City in 1921 and a H&H in 1939/40
  • They played annually for 20 years from 1945-1964 with the exception of 1963 (canceled due to JFK assassination, see above from Hawkinole). These games were in October initially then moved to November and rivalry week starting in 1949. Notre Dame held a 11-5-3 advantage in these games.
  • They played a H&H in 1967/68 with Notre Dame winning both games.
I don't want to overstate anything. The rivalry week games were Iowa's rivalry week. Notre Dame typically played USC the following week.
I believe the rivalry ended in part due to the "fainting Irish" game in the 1950s when Notre Dame, ranked #1, feigned injuries in the final seconds of each half when they were driving near the goal line, to get timeouts when they had none. Notre Dame scored two touchdowns in this manner. The game ended in a tie. Notre Dame was excoriated by Grantland Rice. Iowa ended the season 5-3-1, but was ranked #9. Maryland won the MNC at 10-1, and Notre Dame was #2 at 9-0-1 because of the fiasco. Maryland's loss was in its bowl game. Back then the AP final poll was before the bowl games.

Forest Evashevski was Iowa's coach in 1953. He was Iowa's athletic director when the series ended, and my suspicion is it was ended in part because of 1953. He didn't forget a slight. 
After the game he said: "When the One Great Scorer comes to write against our name, He won't write whether we won or lost, but how come we got gypped at Notre Dame."[25] Evashevski said, "Don't celebrate a tie; celebrate a victory. I was there Saturday, and if ever a team won a game, Iowa won a victory at Notre Dame Saturday." School officials eventually ordered Evashevski to apologize for his remarks. Forest Evashevski - Wikipedia
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Hawkinole

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Re: VOTE: What will ND end up doing?
« Reply #100 on: July 06, 2022, 12:34:24 AM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on July 05, 2022, 09:55:09 PM
I forgot that was why but you are right. Their last scheduled game in 2001 was Minnesota same as all other seasons from 1983-2002.
Minnesota is regarded by many in Iowa as being Iowa's rival. The Iowa-Minnesota border in Iowa's 2nd longest border behind the Iowa-Missouri border - but Missouri is seldom played. 
When Hayden Fry was coach, and Lou Holtz was Minnesota's coach it was decided this might become a meaningful game, and the Iowa-Minnesota game was moved to rivalry week, which worked out well. Iowa fans travel, and the HHH dome made for a fair weather game at the end of the season. But Lou Holtz left.
The Wisconsin game is also a big one, and the Big Ten decided Wisconsin-Iowa made the best rivalry week game for Iowa. Then Nebraska joined, and that ended the Wisconsin rivalry week game.

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Hawkinole

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Re: VOTE: What will ND end up doing?
« Reply #101 on: July 06, 2022, 12:35:57 AM »
Back to Notre Dame. It appears their athletic department is holding tight to independence, for now. Notre Dame will need some kind of inducement to join the Big Ten. Not sure what that will be.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: VOTE: What will ND end up doing?
« Reply #102 on: July 06, 2022, 01:13:01 AM »
Until there's some sort of playoff requiring conference affiliation, what do they care?  
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: VOTE: What will ND end up doing?
« Reply #103 on: July 06, 2022, 04:15:27 AM »
I chose ND stays independent.  Because they like it.  And because they still have as much access to the playoff/NC as they ever have.
.
I predict the B12 adds UA, ASU, Utah, CU, UW, and Oregon.
ND stays independent.
The B1G adds Stanford and Cal.
The ACC freaks out and becomes a free-for-all.
The SEC adds FSU, Miami, Clemson and there's a fight over UNC, with the B1G.  
The B1G adds Pitt, Syracuse, Virginia, and UNC.
The SEC adds GT or NCST or VT.
The B12 adds WSU/ORST or SDST/Boise
.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: VOTE: What will ND end up doing?
« Reply #104 on: July 06, 2022, 04:16:34 AM »
I also think as EVERYONE gets much richer and ND falls behind, they'll start going 4-8 and 3-9 every year about 8-10 years from now.
They will have chosen poorly.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2022, 06:14:32 AM by OrangeAfroMan »
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MrNubbz

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Re: VOTE: What will ND end up doing?
« Reply #105 on: July 06, 2022, 07:06:45 AM »
Quote from: Hawkinole on July 06, 2022, 12:35:57 AM
Notre Dame will need some kind of inducement to join the Big Ten. Not sure what that will be.
How about this 🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕 from each team in the conference 🖕🖕 and this for when USC/UCLA join
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MrNubbz

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Re: VOTE: What will ND end up doing?
« Reply #106 on: July 06, 2022, 07:11:21 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 06, 2022, 04:15:27 AM
I chose ND stays independent.  Because they like it.  And because they still have as much access to the playoff/NC as they ever have.
Not with the conferences being condensed,they may stay Indy but they'll get bounced from playoff consideration.The Committee is tired of their automatc "L"
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: VOTE: What will ND end up doing?
« Reply #107 on: July 06, 2022, 07:26:59 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 06, 2022, 04:15:27 AM
I chose ND stays independent.  Because they like it.  And because they still have as much access to the playoff/NC as they ever have.
.
I predict the B12 adds UA, ASU, Utah, CU, UW, and Oregon.
ND stays independent.
The B1G adds Stanford and Cal.
The ACC freaks out and becomes a free-for-all.
The SEC adds FSU, Miami, Clemson and there's a fight over UNC, with the B1G. 
The B1G adds Pitt, Syracuse, Virginia, and UNC.
The SEC adds GT or NCST or VT.
The B12 adds WSU/ORST or SDST/Boise
.
[img width=500 height=311.992]https://i.imgur.com/4gcndYd.jpg[/img]


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nwms

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Re: VOTE: What will ND end up doing?
« Reply #108 on: July 07, 2022, 01:40:20 PM »
i think they stay ind as long as they have access to the po and major bowls.  eventually they will be forced into one i think (?).  i do not think it’s the smart play but they seem to value their independence enough to do it - it’s been more lucrative to join a league for awhile now.  i also think circumstances will dictate which league they end up in.

the $ could force their hand as the gap continues to widen. 

i wouldn’t discount the sec as a player in this.  mainly bc at this point there doesn’t seem to be any limit to what tv can necessarily orchestrate in the background anymore regardless of what otherwise makes more sense (big ten or acc if the latter can survive).

guessing the big ten waits them out for the time being.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: VOTE: What will ND end up doing?
« Reply #109 on: July 07, 2022, 02:02:38 PM »
As long as the ACC exists and/or good programs aren't gobbled up by another conference, ND can be independent.  There's talk of FSU, Clemson, Miami, UNC, UVA VT going here or there, but in the eastern half of the country (if that still matters), there are still decent programs that are unlikely to just fade away.
GT, NCST, Pitt, etc aren't the same as Wazzou or Oregon State.  They matter and unless any future playoff requires a conference championship, these programs may hang on.  They're not the steak or potatoes, but they're not nothing, either.  ND is an island and if there's an archipelago of teams like it, it may extend their isolation.
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Temp430

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Re: VOTE: What will ND end up doing?
« Reply #110 on: July 07, 2022, 02:10:16 PM »
A lot of ACC schools such as Duke, Virginia, Georgia Tech, UNC, don't seem like good academic fits for the SEC. 
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: VOTE: What will ND end up doing?
« Reply #111 on: July 07, 2022, 02:35:51 PM »
Ultimately I think that Notre Dame will feel it necessary to join either the B1G or the SEC for reasons of money and CFP access but once they join I think they'll regret it.

As baffling as this is to me, I realize that some posters here actually think that Cincinnati was a legitimate top-5 team last year but they weren't and Cincy last year makes for a great comparison. 

In 2021 Cincinnati beat Indiana in a competitive game:

  • Indiana led at the half.
  • Indiana led going into the fourth quarter.
  • Indiana was either ahead or within one score for all but the final 2:37.
  • Cincinnati won by 14.
In 2021 Cincinnati beat Notre Dame in a less competitive game:
  • Notre Dame never led.
  • After halftime Notre Dame was only within one score for about three minutes.
  • Cincinnati won by 11.


Indiana went 0-9 in the B1G in 2021 with losses:
  • To tOSU by 47
  • To Purdue by 37
  • To Rutgers by 35
  • To Iowa by 28
  • To Penn State by 24
  • To Michigan by 22
  • To Minnesota by 21
  • To MSU by 5
  • To UMD by 3

I'm not saying that Notre Dame would have gone 0-9 in the B1G in 2021 but they would have been lucky to finish over .500.

I also think that in the long run Notre Dame will not be anywhere near as valuable as they currently seem because the very act of taking them will largely eliminate their "special" status which is one of the primary drivers of their existing value/ratings draw.
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