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Topic: What should be the priorities that guide scheduling

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bayareabadger

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Re: What should be the priorities that guide scheduling
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2019, 09:53:43 AM »

I think with attendance becoming more an issue each year we are going to see AD’s start bumping up schedules somewhat.  As someone mentioned previously WVU has 11 P5 games scheduled through 2024 and they are mostly against old  regional rivals (Pitt, Penn St, Maryland, VT).  Those games will be sellouts and generate huge buzz among the fanbase. We miss playing those schools. Now, does new HC Neal Brown love that schedule? Maybe not, but those games were scheduled in advance of him coming.


This experiment is just fascinating to me. 

I get that people are excited about the big regional games, but I have to wonder about overall success. People seemed generally down on Holgo. He fielded mostly successful teams, but there was a sense there was not enough. That came after the schedule got harder with the Big 12 move. 

Making the schedule another level harder likely again puts a dent in the quality of the team. If Brown fields a lot of 7-8 win teams and misses bowls some years, I assume that will further depress enthusiasm. Granted, it's all kind of relative. 

WVU managed three sellouts in four in the best Big 12 year of the Holgo era. Weirdly, it could not sell out games when the team was 6-1 (granted coming off the first loss) and 9-2. They had one sellout in 2017, vs Texas Tech and coming off a loss, and then managed 2-3 last year, vs. TCU when the team was 7-1 off the Texas win and 8-2 playing for a spot in the conference title game. 

Anyway, I like Brown, but I get the sense that's a harder job than ever and don't know anyone really treats it as such. 

medinabuckeye1

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Re: What should be the priorities that guide scheduling
« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2019, 09:59:10 AM »
I'm starting to think the AD's don't much care about attendance anymore. They are more interested in broadcast monies.

Lots of places are starting to serve alcohol. That might help attendance, but what does it say for the health of the sport itself?

I definitely agree, the AD's care more about broadcast money than attendance but I think that is a mistake because, as we have discussed ad-nauseam today's no-shows are tomorrow's no-views. 

My underlying theory on this is that maintaining at least the illusion of "scarcity" is important.  That is why I was mostly looking at percentage of capacity as opposed to raw attendance.  Ie, if Iowa puts 70k in their 70k stadium that would be better than Michigan, Penn State, or Ohio State putting 90k in their 105-108k stadiums. 

When I was a kid, Ohio State tickets were a rare find.  You were lucky if you got to go to an Ohio State game.  The tickets were sold to alumni and the wait-list to buy season tickets was years and years long.  That helps sell tickets because people don't want to miss an opportunity to go.  Nobody turned down Ohio State tickets to mow the lawn. 

Some of the change is due to the electronic secondary market.  Now anybody can get a ticket it is just a question of cost.  Still, I think that keeping the stadium at or near capacity needs to be a priority. 

847badgerfan

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Re: What should be the priorities that guide scheduling
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2019, 10:35:38 AM »
The quality and size of pictures available at home are also intriguing.

I know in my waning years of attending every game, it got to be a chore, and combining this with changing schedules (UW went from 2009 to 2017 without Michigan coming to Madison, for example) made it really challenging to get up for home games.

You get up there the night before, and you're in the parking lot by 6AM at the latest. Then you wait and wait and wait. Then you are back at the hotel for another night. Then home Sunday morning.

That got old really fast for us, especially given the "quality" of games we'd get to see. The big screen was looking better and better all the time, and it's much more economical.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: What should be the priorities that guide scheduling
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2019, 10:43:15 AM »
I want to focus on BB and specifically my school for a minute. 

Over the last two years Ohio State's BB schedule (regular season only, includes pre-season tournaments but not B1G Tournament or NCAA Tournament games) has consisted of:
 - 19 B1G Home games (10 in 2017-18 and nine in 2018-19)
 - 18 B1G Road games (nine each year)
 - 1 B1G neutral site game (IL in the United Center)
 - 3 pre-season tournament games (Gonzaga, Stanford, and Butler in the 2017 PK80)
 - 2 B1G/ACC Challenge home games (Clemson, Syracuse)
 - 2 neutral site OOC games (UNC in NOLA, UCLA in Chicago)
 - 2 OOC road games (Cincy, Creighton)
 - 15 OOC home games (Robert Morris, Radford, TxSo, Northeastern, Bill&Mary, ApSt, Citadel, Miami-OH, Pur-Ft Wayne, ScST, Samford, CSU, Bucknell, YSU, High Point). 

Those 15 OOC games are just pathetic especially for a school that has the largest arena in the B1G yet has average attendance in the bottom half of the league.  Per the Worldwide leader, here are the attendance figures for those 15 games:
 - 11,128 Robert Morris
 - 10,425 Radford
 - 9,984 TxSO
 - 10,779 Northeastern
 - 11,158 Bill&Mary
 - 12,616 ApSt
 - 10,752 Citadel
 - 15,131 Miami, OH
 - 12,040 Purdue Fort Wayne
 - 10,935 ScST
 - 10,725 Samford
 - 13,276 CSU
 - 14,241 Bucknell
 - 12,637 YSU
 - 14,264 High Point

None of those 15 OOC home games had attendance of much more than 80% of Ohio State's capacity. 

My thinking is that the Buckeyes should have given up at least four of those crappy home games in exchange for two decent OOC home games and two decent OOC road games.  I would prefer if they would give up eight of those 15 crappy home games in exchange for four decent OOC home games and four decent OOC road games. 

Cincydawg

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Re: What should be the priorities that guide scheduling
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2019, 10:45:45 AM »
I might go to one game a year now, maybe, though we're traveling some.  As noted, the TV is excellent, as is the couch, and the fridge is just over there.

I paid nearly $300 for a nosebleed seat in the SEC CG, partly to see the new stadium, and the wife encouraged me to go alone.  I could get there easily, no parking to worry about, so I went.  Ended badly.

Anyway, I was noodling about the Vandy game (up there).  Cheapest tickets were $90 X 2.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: What should be the priorities that guide scheduling
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2019, 10:52:52 AM »
I know in my waning years of attending every game, it got to be a chore
I know this feeling exactly.  We had season tickets for a number of years and it was great to watch the Buckeyes play Michigan, Texas, Oklahoma, USC, Wisconsin, Penn State, etc. 

The thing is that the average year also included a number of duds.  I'm roughly two hours from Columbus and that is without considering gameday traffic.  I rarely stayed in a hotel like what you talked about but it still blows a whole day unless it is a night game but that blows half of the next day.  Typical schedule:
Noon game (11 to you CST folks):
Leave home by 6am to get there and beat the traffic.  Get to Columbus and parked by around 9am.  Tailgate or go to Skull Session then the game.  Get out of the game at ~3:30.  Stop for dinner and to watch some of the later games on the way home.  Get home at 8-9. 

3:30 game (2:30 to you CST folks):
Leave later so you MIGHT be able to get something done before you leave.  Get to the Columbus and parked by around noon.  Tailgate or go to Skull Session then the game.  Get out of the game at ~7.  Stop for dinner and to watch some of the night games on the way home.  Get home around midnight. 

8pm game (7pm to you CST folks):
Leave much later so you can actually get some things done before you leave.  Get to Columbus and parked by around 4pm.  Tailgate or go to Skull Session then the game.  Get out of the game near midnight.  Stop for a snack on the way home and get home around 4am.  Sleep all morning the next day. 

All of that is fine for a good game but not worth it every single weekend for crappy games. 

Cincydawg

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Re: What should be the priorities that guide scheduling
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2019, 11:09:26 AM »
The main reason for me to go to an actual game would be the tailgating, which can be something to enjoy.  But, once you've seen it, it's not as if it really changes the next time.  I took the daughter to the Tech game in Athens and it was cold and drizzly so the tailgating was almost shut down.

I think it was 38°F game time, and was colder than Columbus, Ohio that day.  The drizzle was off and on, mostly off.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: What should be the priorities that guide scheduling
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2019, 11:50:25 AM »
If the Ohio State AD put me in charge of scheduling Ohio State's OOC BB games my thought would be to first avoid the REALLY bad match-ups.  Second, I'd look to add some additional decent OOC match-ups and the schools I would look to schedule would be those schools, like Ohio State, that are good at both BB and FB.  Here are the top-35 at both sports as compiled by me from the AP's top-100 BB and FB program lists that came out a while back:
SchoolBBFBTotal
Ohio State12113
Michigan14620
Notre Dame18422
Oklahoma20323
Alabama30232
Michigan State132134
Florida281038
North Carolina23739
Texas36844
Iowa232548
Syracuse94049
Tennessee381452
Arkansas312253
USC50555
Duke35356
LSU471158
Maryland174158
Pitt352459
Wisconsin372360
Purdue243761
Illinois115162
Arizona85462
Mizzou293564
Louisville75865
Kansas56469
Kencucky16869
Washington521870
Stanford403171
GaTech452772
FSU64973
West Virginia423274
OkSU344276
NCST225678
Indiana67379
Minnesota433982
So if I were scheduling Ohio State's OOC BB games I would look to schedule:
Notre Dame
Oklahoma
Alabama
Florida
North Carolina
Texas
Syracuse
Tennessee
Arkansas
USC
Duke
LSU
Pitt
Arizona
Mizzou
Louisville
Kansas
Kentucky
Washington
Stanford
GaTech
FSU
WVU
OkSU
NCST
Clemson (#36, not listed above)

ELA

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Re: What should be the priorities that guide scheduling
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2019, 12:54:03 PM »
The quality and size of pictures available at home are also intriguing.

I know in my waning years of attending every game, it got to be a chore, and combining this with changing schedules (UW went from 2009 to 2017 without Michigan coming to Madison, for example) made it really challenging to get up for home games.

You get up there the night before, and you're in the parking lot by 6AM at the latest. Then you wait and wait and wait. Then you are back at the hotel for another night. Then home Sunday morning.

That got old really fast for us, especially given the "quality" of games we'd get to see. The big screen was looking better and better all the time, and it's much more economical.
My dad missed exactly two Michigan games from 1965-2015.  One was when his father passed the night before in 1982, one was when we went to Chicago for my other grandfather's 75th birthday in 2000.  He sat through mostly good teams, but some not so good ones too.  He sat through meaningless games in bad weather, when a 7-3 Michigan was playing a 3-6 Purdue or whatever.  Over the past 4 years, he's gone to probably half the games.  He lives in Ann Arbor, so it's not even an overnight thing, it's just a matter of being able to see more on TV at this point, and how small the seats are at Michigan Stadium.

That's the issue, is not convenience, that's always been a thing.  Basically every game has been on at least locally for 20 years now.  But the quality of presentation has spoiled us to the point now I feel like I end up missing too much being there.  I do enjoy the experience, so I wish I could go more often, at least once a year, but I wouldn't pick the biggest game, I'd pick a meh Big Ten opponent, so at least it's not total dregs, but it's not a game where I want to make sure I see everything.  I think the last three games I went to were a pair of games against Minnesota and one against Illinois.

FearlessF

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Re: What should be the priorities that guide scheduling
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2019, 01:19:25 PM »
yup, I used to go to all the games when I was young

now, I skip the home opener, because regardless of opponent, everyone seems to want to attend that game.  Drives up prices and clogs up the city.  Besides, that's some good golf weather.

I also skip the cupcake games such as Bethane-Cookman.  Unless my brother comes to town.  He likes the cupcake games, cheap tickets and most times a "W".

I also usually skip the marquee game such as Ohio St. this season.  Tickets will be high and the Huskers haven't shown they can compete in that game.

I also skip the Day after Thanksgiving game because of the timing and the holiday and many times the weather is rough. (getting old)

so, this season, I plan to attend Husker games vs N. Illinois, Northwestern, Minnesota(on the road), and Wisconsin.  Possibly Indiana, maybe not.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

medinabuckeye1

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Re: What should be the priorities that guide scheduling
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2019, 03:23:09 PM »
I also usually skip the marquee game such as Ohio St. this season.  Tickets will be high and the Huskers haven't shown they can compete in that game.
With, of course, the notable exception of my one and only trip to Lincoln.  :(

FearlessF

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Re: What should be the priorities that guide scheduling
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2019, 03:54:31 PM »
hey, if any good people plan a trip to Lincoln, I'll adjust my schedule, meet them there early, stay late, and try to be a good host.

Nubbz has a chance at winning the hotel/lodging lottery for the Bucks/Huskers game
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Hawkinole

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Re: What should be the priorities that guide scheduling
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2019, 05:16:39 PM »
selling alcohol won't help attendance, but it generates revenue

winning helps attendance

fans would rather watch Iowa win vs Iowa State and UNI than lose to Notre Dame
If you were from Dubuque -- you wouldn't post this; Iowa had some success against Notre Dame. Some success being defined as success better than Iowa's success had been against Michigan, Ohio State, Purdue, Illinois, Minnesota, and Nebraska.

FearlessF

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Re: What should be the priorities that guide scheduling
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2019, 05:42:07 PM »
I'm just saying that strength of programs being considered, Notre Dame would probably fare better than Iowa State vs the Hawks these days or the past couple decades

Hayden Fry was the guy that taught Bill Snyder to "never schedule a loss"

but, you're right, Sewer City is about as far from Dubuque as one can get.  The only thing we share is Hwy 20 and a mighty river.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

 

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