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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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longhorn320

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4480 on: March 22, 2021, 01:46:49 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on March 22, 2021, 01:40:28 PM
And a problem is that trees eventually die, and rot, which releases the CO2 they stored, unless they are harvested and preserved somewhere, or converted down to carbon.


but isnt that the circle of life as other trees use the co2 released by dead trees

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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4481 on: March 22, 2021, 02:04:45 PM »
Quote from: longhorn320 on March 22, 2021, 01:46:49 PM
but isnt that the circle of life as other trees use the co2 released by dead trees
If the objective is to sequester CO2 permanently, that doesn't work.  My focus is on comparing artificial CO2 capture with how trees do it normally.  There is a huge entropy problem with taking something at a concentration of 410 ppm out of the rest of it,  you can't get around entropy except with enthalpy, which costs something.

One can absorb CO2 with say NaOH, it works, and you get Na2CO3, fine, but you have to make the NaOH to start with.
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longhorn320

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4482 on: March 22, 2021, 02:41:02 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on March 22, 2021, 02:04:45 PM
If the objective is to sequester CO2 permanently, that doesn't work.  My focus is on comparing artificial CO2 capture with how trees do it normally.  There is a huge entropy problem with taking something at a concentration of 410 ppm out of the rest of it,  you can't get around entropy except with enthalpy, which costs something.

One can absorb CO2 with say NaOH, it works, and you get Na2CO3, fine, but you have to make the NaOH to start with.
come on man
Im just a poor retired accountant from Texas
put it into words humans can understand
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4483 on: March 22, 2021, 02:49:31 PM »
I love the big, fancy ideas ending in..."I dunno....bury it?"
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4484 on: March 22, 2021, 03:04:01 PM »
The idea of planting more trees isn't some "fancy idea", it's pretty simple as compared to carbon capture technologies.  But you would need to keep dead wood from rotting to effectively "capture" the carbon.

It would take up a lot of space to make a dent, that is the issue.  Wind and solar take up a lot of space as well.

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4485 on: March 22, 2021, 04:31:55 PM »
Quote from: longhorn320 on March 22, 2021, 02:41:02 PM
come on man
Im just a poor retired accountant from Texas
put it into words humans can understand
The short simple version is that nature has a carbon cycle. Trees take carbon out of the air. Then they die, they rot, and release the carbon back into the air. They've been doing it for thousands of years, and the amount of carbon in the air has stayed pretty constant.

Humans have disrupted that cycle, pulled a lot of carbon compounds out of the ground, burned them, and now there's WAY more carbon in the atmosphere than at least any point in human history, possibly higher than most times in the planet's modern history. 

So nature's carbon cycle, left to its own devices, isn't going to clean this up on the time scale we need it to. 

We need to pull the carbon out of the air faster, and we need to do it in a way that puts it back in the ground where we got it so it doesn't cause rot and end up in the atmosphere again. 

tl;dr trees are great, but they can't fix what we broke on their own...
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4486 on: March 22, 2021, 05:28:17 PM »


CO2 levels have been much higher in the distant (prehuman) past.  We didn't have plants initially of course.  The air was primarily nitrogen, CO2, and water vapor back when.  Then plants came along, some 2.5 billion years or so back (not on the chart).

A brief history of the Earth's CO2 - BBC News
A brief history of the Earth's CO2 - BBC News

The oceans are the largest sink for CO2.  Various aquatic plants or animals form calcium carbonate and die and sink to the bottom of the sea, never to be seen again.

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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4487 on: March 22, 2021, 06:58:39 PM »
All I know is that I just drove across a snow covered desert in late March. 
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MrNubbz

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4488 on: March 22, 2021, 07:13:43 PM »
Did you get your mitts on peyote buttons again?Not there's anything wrong with that
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Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4489 on: March 22, 2021, 07:25:11 PM »
I still haven't come across a peyote cactus yet. 
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4490 on: March 22, 2021, 10:48:51 PM »
Although I did find a giant pile of quarters on the ground. About 15 bucks. 

Even if they were tampered with and left there as a prank, the rain that preceded the snow would have washed them off.

**cue Cincydawg mentioning some type of harmful chemical that cannot possibly be washed off**
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4491 on: March 23, 2021, 09:54:38 AM »
Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on March 22, 2021, 10:48:51 PM
**cue Cincydawg mentioning some type of harmful chemical that cannot possibly be washed off**
Heh, it's possible but unlikely.  A lot of poisons of course are not water soluble, including some bad ones.

I have a "favorite" that goes through the skin, but it would wash off.
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4492 on: March 23, 2021, 10:06:24 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on March 23, 2021, 09:54:38 AM

I have a "favorite" that goes through the skin, but it would wash off.


LSD? 

:7505:
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4493 on: March 23, 2021, 10:07:22 AM »
No, it's pretty well known obviously, and fairly common stuff, but I'm not going to mention it here.  It's quite deadly.
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