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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2870 on: May 20, 2020, 10:41:32 PM »
Is public education better now than it was before the Department of Education was created?  I doubt it.
Education is not a constitutional responsibility of the federal government.
CW, what does the data say?

Literacy Rate, 1968:  98%
Literacy Rate, today:  99%

You already know that students today perform better on IQ tests, by as much as 14 points over their great grandparents.  A lot of that is due to education.

Educational opportunities for a poor black child in Alabama in 1969?  I'd like to think we've made some improvement on this front, but I'll let you dig up the data on that one.

Education is covered under the commerce clause of the constitution, and that's been held up numerous times by the supreme court.  I'm pretty sure the supreme court is constitutional.

New math?  data proves it works better than old math.
Using multiple strategies to teach literacy?  data proves it works better than just phonics.

Things are different now, that does not meant they are worse.  We are just getting grumpy and old.  haha

Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2871 on: May 20, 2020, 11:04:01 PM »
Probably?

Not necessary because of the department of education, but it probably hasn't grown worse the past 40 years.

I'll cop to not knowing exactly what oversight it has. I suppose it could dissolve. I wonder what kind of federal money comes down and how it gets distributed.


First, the Department of Education distributes title 1 funds.  This is federal money earmarked for schools in poor districts.  When people talk about getting rid of the DOE, this is usually what they are talking about*. They also issue Pell grants, student loans, and special education funding. 91% of their budget goes into these buckets.

Second, the DOE oversees school districts to prevent things like discrimination.  You know why so many people were upset back in the 1970s?   They couldn't carve out the "bad element" into their own school district anymore. 

Third, the DOE protects children.  If you are from a small town, with a small town superintendent, and they tell you to root for the Buckeyes or fail, you can either root for the Buckeyes, or you can complain to the DOE.

Fourth, the DOE holds schools to a national education standard.  There was a time, not long ago, where Alabama had their own standardized testing, and Massachusetts also had their own.  Which state do you think set lower standards?  Now, of course, we can look at standardized testing and see just how well Massachusetts compares with Alabama.

of course, they do MUCH more than this. 

*Not necessarily because they hate the poor or people of color.  There is some debate as to whether or not these funds would be used in a different way that would be more effective.  But that's politics.


CWSooner

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2872 on: May 21, 2020, 12:14:14 AM »
Probably?

Not necessary because of the department of education, but it probably hasn't grown worse the past 40 years.

I'll cop to not knowing exactly what oversight it has. I suppose it could dissolve. I wonder what kind of federal money comes down and how it gets distributed.
It's not a huge bureaucracy.  $68 billion budget and 4,000 employees.
It could have remained a part of the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare (HEW), but Jimmy Carter wanted to be an "education" president.
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CWSooner

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2873 on: May 21, 2020, 12:17:58 AM »

First, the Department of Education distributes title 1 funds.  This is federal money earmarked for schools in poor districts.  When people talk about getting rid of the DOE, this is usually what they are talking about*. They also issue Pell grants, student loans, and special education funding. 91% of their budget goes into these buckets.

Second, the DOE oversees school districts to prevent things like discrimination.  You know why so many people were upset back in the 1970s?  They couldn't carve out the "bad element" into their own school district anymore. 

Third, the DOE protects children.  If you are from a small town, with a small town superintendent, and they tell you to root for the Buckeyes or fail, you can either root for the Buckeyes, or you can complain to the DOE.

Fourth, the DOE holds schools to a national education standard.  There was a time, not long ago, where Alabama had their own standardized testing, and Massachusetts also had their own.  Which state do you think set lower standards?  Now, of course, we can look at standardized testing and see just how well Massachusetts compares with Alabama.

of course, they do MUCH more than this. 

*Not necessarily because they hate the poor or people of color.  There is some debate as to whether or not these funds would be used in a different way that would be more effective.  But that's politics.
If the bolded part is true, I've not encountered it in 21 years of being in public education.  I have no idea what the national standard is.  Even the great reform, No Child Left Behind, didn't establish a firm national education standard as far as I know.  Are the Explore, Plan, and ACT mandated by the federal government?  Or the PSAT/SAT?  I'm not aware that they are.
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Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2874 on: May 21, 2020, 12:50:12 AM »
If the bolded part is true, I've not encountered it in 21 years of being in public education.  I have no idea what the national standard is.  Even the great reform, No Child Left Behind, didn't establish a firm national education standard as far as I know.  Are the Explore, Plan, and ACT mandated by the federal government?  Or the PSAT/SAT?  I'm not aware that they are.
Ever heard of common core?  

Oh wait, some states don’t participate in that, right?  Wrong. They do. They may not take the national standard test, but the states have to administer a state test that .... Wait for it ... meets the common core standards. 




Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2875 on: May 21, 2020, 07:18:09 AM »
I guess our education system is great thanks to the DoE.  


Except that has not been my experience with it.

847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2876 on: May 21, 2020, 07:48:32 AM »
New math?  data proves it works better than old math.
Bulljive.
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847badgerfan

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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2878 on: May 21, 2020, 08:27:47 AM »
When I was in about 4th grade, they shifted from old math to something called "New Math".  It was confusing initially, I vaguely recall we basically dropped it after a few tries and the teacher just reverted.

I hit Algebra I in 8th grade and there was no "New Math" to it at all.  I somewhat liked math, I liked Geometry the most.  I had a tough teacher in 11th grade for Trig.  He was one of three tough teachers I had in HS, out of all of them, I was not well prepared for college IMHO.

My kids told me they felt well prepared, it wasn't a Big Transition for them.

I can vaguely recall the "schools" for the black kids in Augusta, GA.  African Americans obviously lived in "their" part of town, and it mostly was what we'd call slums, really really bad slums.  I can recall water fountains labeled "Whites Only" and "Colored", the latter being filthy.

We had busing when I was in HS to try and ferry a few black kids to the school.  I don't think any lived in the school district at the time, the area is not 70%+ black and most of the rest Hispanic.  Meanwhile, the city of Atlanta is reversing white flight rather quickly.  Black folks and Native Americans of my era had few chances.


Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2879 on: May 21, 2020, 10:49:36 AM »
I guess our education system is great thanks to the DoE. 


Except that has not been my experience with it.
Nobody said it was great.

I said it was better.

"if you're not getting better, you're getting worse."
- Joe Paterno

Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2880 on: May 21, 2020, 10:59:07 AM »
Bulljive.
How would you multiply 11 x 14 in your head?

If you have a higher concept of math, you'd probably multiply 14 x 10, and then add 14.  This is pretty much how "new" math works.

How about adding 7+29+3?  If you have a higher concept of math, you'd probably do something like this: 7+3=10+29=39.

Essentially, new math is working the "problem solving" area of the brain, rather than just using rote memorization.

It is different, and confusing to us older folks that learned to carry the one by making marks on stone tablets.  Different doesn't mean worse.

BTW, MOST schools actually combine both methods, because ... wait for it ... common core testing shows schools that incorporate both methods outperform those that don't.  That's a fact.

Note that common core does not mandate HOW something is to be taught.  You can teach traditional math, new math, a combination of both, they don't care. Common core just measures how WELL you've learned it.

CWSooner

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2881 on: May 21, 2020, 11:04:03 AM »
Ever heard of common core? 

Oh wait, some states don’t participate in that, right?  Wrong. They do. They may not take the national standard test, but the states have to administer a state test that .... Wait for it ... meets the common core standards.
All states do not participate in Common Core.

Furthermore, where is the federal government's legitimate authority to even set a national standard, Common Core or otherwise?

Power is different from legitimate authority.  The federal government can force states to knuckle under by threatening to withhold funding for a variety of operations.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 11:09:41 AM by CWSooner »
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Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2882 on: May 21, 2020, 11:10:48 AM »
It's not a huge bureaucracy.  $68 billion budget and 4,000 employees.
It could have remained a part of the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare (HEW), but Jimmy Carter wanted to be an "education" president.
Even if we combined them again, what would really change?  What would be the benefit?  Why should education and health be in the same bucket?


847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2883 on: May 21, 2020, 11:23:06 AM »
How would you multiply 11 x 14 in your head?
How ever I want to, not how I'm told to.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

 

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