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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2660 on: May 15, 2020, 01:39:59 PM »
We have some freeways here built in the early 60s with concrete that are still on the original pavement.  There often are sections cut out and redone here and there.  We don't have the salt and severe freeze issue here obviously.

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2661 on: May 15, 2020, 02:22:14 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on May 15, 2020, 01:39:59 PM
We have some freeways here built in the early 60s with concrete that are still on the original pavement.  There often are sections cut out and redone here and there.  We don't have the salt and severe freeze issue here obviously.
Same here; I think a lot more of SoCal freeways are concrete than most places.

With the amount of traffic they see, and the interruption caused any time there needs to be roadwork, having something more expensive but more durable makes sense. And since we don't have freeze/thaw to worry about either, it won't be overly susceptible to cracking due to weather. 
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2662 on: May 15, 2020, 02:28:36 PM »
https://www.midtownatl.com/_files/docs/midtown-development-activity-051320---c.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1OX9T4hCjFTe6aX4i8gB5feZw1fw6J1Ua7FvCq4Wwuxi8N1l5Nfk4P3uY

Meanwhile, the pace of development near me is going full bore.  A lot of this is office space which might not be in as much demand in the future as was projected.  Some of this is just starting, just past demo, and might get delayed, not sure.



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FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2663 on: May 15, 2020, 02:32:02 PM »
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Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2664 on: May 15, 2020, 04:04:52 PM »
Quote from: FearlessF on May 15, 2020, 02:32:02 PM
obviously the government is involved
$40K is actually really, really cheap when compared to the cost of the road.  Miles are big.

"Construct a new 2-lane undivided road – about $2 million to $3 million per mile in rural areas, about $3 million to $5 million in urban areas. Construct a new 4-lane highway — $4 million to $6 million per mile in rural and suburban areas, $8 million to $10 million per mile in urban areas"


https://www.artba.org/about/faq/

I am generally clueless as to why people think the government automatically does a bad job at things.  I know, it SOUNDS right, but where is the data.  Gotta sell me on the data...
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847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2665 on: May 15, 2020, 04:06:39 PM »
Painting roads is probably the silliest thing this uncivil engineer ever heard of. 

And I've seen a lot of silly in my 35+ years of practice. Trust me.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2666 on: May 15, 2020, 04:19:23 PM »
$40 K for anything highway is cheap, it's maybe a sign or two. 


I like the notion of lighter colored roofs.  Or Elon's promised solar tiles in lieu of a roof, that hasn't seemed to be a real thing though.

https://www.citylab.com/environment/2019/10/cool-pavement-materials-coating-urban-heat-island-research/599221/

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2667 on: May 15, 2020, 04:24:03 PM »
Quote from: Big Beef Tacosupreme on May 15, 2020, 04:04:52 PM

I am generally clueless as to why people think the government automatically does a bad job at things.  I know, it SOUNDS right, but where is the data.  Gotta sell me on the data...
I dunno... It reminds me of a product that we used to sell to a distributor, who used to sell it to a defense contractor, who used to sell it to the government.

Because it had very unique design characteristics, we had a huge markup on the product [i.e. the "make it worth our while to even bother with it" premium]. The distributor was marking it up greatly too, without basically doing anything. Who knows what the markup was from the contractor to the gov't?

All I know is that the distributor took several of us out for a ridiculously expensive dinner because they were making so much margin on the deal that they wanted to thank us lol...

(Note: I realize that's an anecdote, and not evidence. I recognize the limitation therein.)
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Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2668 on: May 15, 2020, 04:31:33 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 15, 2020, 04:06:39 PM
Painting roads is probably the silliest thing this uncivil engineer ever heard of.

And I've seen a lot of silly in my 35+ years of practice. Trust me.
When I read the article I kept thinking there must have been another reason.  Maybe the material would also double as a protectant?  But it said nothing about that.

Here's the thing -- yes, white reflects a ton of light back up.  But this is in a city...there's plenty of stuff "up".  Buildings, cars, poles.  I would assume those things would just get hotter...

I suppose, overall, there would be a cooling effect, but I can't imagine it being that substantial...

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847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2669 on: May 15, 2020, 04:31:44 PM »
"You don't actually think they spend $20,000 on a hammer, $30,000 on a toilet seat, do you?"

That was a good movie.


https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jul/10/senator-demands-answers-pentagons-10k-toilet-seat/

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847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2670 on: May 15, 2020, 04:32:52 PM »
Quote from: Big Beef Tacosupreme on May 15, 2020, 04:31:33 PM
When I read the article I kept thinking there must have been another reason.  Maybe the material would also double as a protectant?  But it said nothing about that.

Here's the thing -- yes, white reflects a ton of light back up.  But this is in a city...there's plenty of stuff "up".  Buildings, cars, poles.  I would assume those things would just get hotter...

I suppose, overall, there would be a cooling effect, but I can't imagine it being that substantial...


Paint wears off on a damn garage floor. 
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2671 on: May 15, 2020, 04:39:46 PM »
I once was involved with a technology that looked like it might be a good filtration material.  I went to Michigan to a test company to get test data on various version of the stuff.  We were chatting at lunch about using it as a car engine filter.  The guy told me "Don't bother, GM and Ford set specs, and whoever meets the specs at the lowest price gets the job.  Being better is not something of interest.".

The stuff had good test numbers.  Incidentally, filtration is a rather complex science.  We normally think of it as being a size kind of thing - interception they call it - and in general it's not that simple at all.

And of course effective filters tend to clog sooner than poorer ones.

I am reminded of all the hoopla about wearing masks right now.  
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Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2672 on: May 15, 2020, 04:40:50 PM »
Quote from: bwarbiany on May 15, 2020, 04:24:03 PM
I dunno... It reminds me of a product that we used to sell to a distributor, who used to sell it to a defense contractor, who used to sell it to the government.

Because it had very unique design characteristics, we had a huge markup on the product [i.e. the "make it worth our while to even bother with it" premium]. The distributor was marking it up greatly too, without basically doing anything. Who knows what the markup was from the contractor to the gov't?

All I know is that the distributor took several of us out for a ridiculously expensive dinner because they were making so much margin on the deal that they wanted to thank us lol...

(Note: I realize that's an anecdote, and not evidence. I recognize the limitation therein.)
I could tell you similar stories from the corporate world that would melt your brain.  Anecdotes, of course. 
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2673 on: May 15, 2020, 05:21:10 PM »
Quote from: Big Beef Tacosupreme on May 15, 2020, 04:40:50 PM
I could tell you similar stories from the corporate world that would melt your brain.  Anecdotes, of course.
If I thought for 30 seconds, I could probably come up with similar stories from the corporate world too ;) 
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