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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2394 on: May 11, 2020, 11:30:10 AM »
Temperature has been changing for millions of years. It's not gonna stop, whether that be up, or down.
Honestly Badge, this line of thinking should be expanded upon.  

The carboniferous period started about 350 million years ago.  This was the very first time the earth had seen trees.  Bacteria had yet to evolve that could feed off of trees, and it took around 60 million years for them to evolve.

Over this 60 million years the trees would fall and simply lie there.  Eventually they would be compressed by other falling trees, and over millions of years this turned into coal.  90% of the coal we burn today is from the carboniferous period.  For 60 million years trees took Carbon out of the atmosphere and buried it deep in the earth.

Our earth wobbles slightly on its axis.  For now, our axis points to the north star.  However, over a 41,000 years period we have a variability of about 2.5 degrees.   Our orbit also slightly elongates and shortens over about 100,000 years.  The combination of these factors is responsible for nearly all of our ice ages.  Right now we are ever so slightly heading into an ice age.

Massive volcanoes and asteroid impacts have filled the atmosphere with so much particulate matter they caused massive cooling.

These are all events that have happened in the past.  What we are seeing now is something entirely different.

Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2395 on: May 11, 2020, 11:31:52 AM »
I am completely convinced it is too later, way too late.  People are rearranging deck chairs.  Cutting a bit here and there, yay for that.

Projected CO2 production by 2030 at this rate will probably be 90% of what we're doing today.
If we take it serious and continue to invest in green energy, research into carbon capture systems, etc. -- it certainly is not too late.

Yet.  

Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2396 on: May 11, 2020, 11:33:26 AM »
Everyone take a deep breath. And please, do not exhale.
This is actually part of the normal carbon cycle and doesn't matter. 

If you dig up carbon that has been buried for 300 million years and then release it into the atmosphere, that is an addition to the carbon cycle, and that's where the additional CO2 in our atmosphere has come from.

Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2397 on: May 11, 2020, 11:34:37 AM »
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2019/11/nations-miss-paris-targets-climate-driven-weather-events-cost-billions/

The majority of the carbon emission reduction pledges for 2030 that 184 countries made under the Paris Agreement aren’t nearly enough to keep global warming well below 3.6 degrees Fahrenheit (2 degrees Celsius). Some countries won’t achieve their pledges, and some of the world's largest carbon emitters will continue to increase their emissions, according to a panel of world-class climate scientists.

“Countries need to double and triple their 2030 reduction commitments to be aligned with the Paris target,” says Sir Robert Watson, former chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and co-author of the report that closely examined the 184 voluntary pledges under the Paris Agreement.

“We have the technology and knowledge to make those emissions cuts, but what’s missing are strong enough policies and regulations to make it happen,” Watson says in an interview. “Right now the world is on a pathway to between 3 and 4 degrees C (5.5 and 7F) by the end of the century.”


I can of course point to some local progress and how this place or that place has gone renewable, but that doesn't mean anything REAL is happening globally.  It's spin, and I'm allergic to spin, having lived in a spin world for most of my career.  The Paris Targets are insufficient, and the planet is not going to meet them anyway.

Every year makes this more and more evident and makes the problem worse and worse.
This doesn't mean you throw your hands up in the air and give up... It speaks to the seriousness of our current situation.

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2398 on: May 11, 2020, 11:35:12 AM »
Taking it seriously is fine, but it doesn't change anything, it's just general opinion.

What changes things is a concrete plan, or at least the outline of one.  One doesn't exist because it can't exist.  Numbers don't lie.  So, we get stuff like what's on Biden's web site which to me reads like some high school project, it's not serious.  It's puffery.

And again what we do HERE is a small piece of the puzzle.  The numbers don't lie.

Politicians are making rather gradual changes for votes so they can look good, but it simply is not nearly enough.

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2399 on: May 11, 2020, 11:36:26 AM »
This doesn't mean you throw your hands up in the air and give up... It speaks to the seriousness of our current situation.
It's fine with me if folks want to pretend and feel happy and cheerful and think "Well, if this guy gets elected, we'll solve this issue."

I try and deal with reality, not wishful thinking.

Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2400 on: May 11, 2020, 11:37:59 AM »
How big an impact do you see the elections making?

How much closer will we be to our goals by 2030 if the right people win in 2020?  10%?  1%?  0.1%?
A large percentage of one side doesn't believe there's a problem at all.

The other side at least acknowledges the problem, but I also have my doubts about what they can do.

Kind of a running theme in American politics at this point.

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2401 on: May 11, 2020, 11:41:34 AM »
Let's imagine, as it's true, that this isn't a political issue in Europe.  So they should be sailing along, right?  Just making HUGE reductions in CO2 production, as they is a broad consensus they need to, and politicians on all sides support it, and nobody is dragging their heels.

Is this a fair assessment?


Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2402 on: May 11, 2020, 11:41:55 AM »
That is the question that the Climate Change'rs will never answer. The Earth's climate is changing . . . just like it has done since the Earth had a climate. There is NO standard climate and never has been. It is in a constant state of change.

The question at hand is are mankind's actions having an adverse affect on the climate? Some would argue that it is and some would argue they are not.

Personally, I do believe that man's actions have an affect on the climate, however that affect is so minuscule when compared to something like a large volcanic eruption. Now that is not to say that we should just do whatever we want and continue to pollute the oceans and the air. We as humans need to be responsible for our environment. We should do what we can to reduce or eliminate pollution as best we can. But we also should NOT bankrupt ourselves in the process.

Man's use of fossil fuels over the past 120+ years has done more to extend lives and feed people than the entire history of mankind prior to that. Telling people that we no longer need those things is foolish and short sighted.

Another question I would ask of those that are pushing Climate Change is, knowing that the spot in which I am currently sitting was covered by a mile thick sheet of ice some 10,000 years ago, what made that ice disappear? Was it cave men driving SUV's? Too many Woolly Mammoth farts?

Let's face it. The Earth's climate is in a constant state of change as it has always been. That big orange, sometimes visible orb in the sky dictates our climate more than mankind ever could, even if they tried.
You should read my post to badge above.

To answer your question -- Milankovitch cycles.  According to them we should be heading into an ice age, yet we continue to warm.

Let's not minimize the impact of the burning of fossil fuels on earth's climate.  It's quite huge.

847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2403 on: May 11, 2020, 11:44:02 AM »
Take it to China and India. Let me know their efforts.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2404 on: May 11, 2020, 11:52:39 AM »
Taking it seriously is fine, but it doesn't change anything, it's just general opinion.

What changes things is a concrete plan, or at least the outline of one.  One doesn't exist because it can't exist.  Numbers don't lie.  So, we get stuff like what's on Biden's web site which to me reads like some high school project, it's not serious.  It's puffery.

And again what we do HERE is a small piece of the puzzle.  The numbers don't lie.

Politicians are making rather gradual changes for votes so they can look good, but it simply is not nearly enough.
His website is simplified for the masses.

Hillary Clinton went into massive detail on her campaign website, and it totally backfired. 

For example, her plans for revitalizing West Virginia were incredibly detailed and specific.  Definitely not for the layman.  Trump came in and said he was going to bring coal back.  We know how that went.

I think Biden is trying to put his plan out there, but not have it mired boring and technical details.

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2405 on: May 11, 2020, 11:55:57 AM »
Lay out some kind of outline of a plan.

1.  What will be closed and replaced with what else.
2.  How much it will cost, and who will pay for it.
3.  The reduction in CO2 generated, and the impact on climate over time according to the models.

What I see everywhere is a bunch of pandering to the masses so as to PRETEND to be doing something serious.  I've seen PR, and this looks like PR to me.

Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2406 on: May 11, 2020, 11:56:11 AM »
Let's imagine, as it's true, that this isn't a political issue in Europe.  So they should be sailing along, right?  Just making HUGE reductions in CO2 production, as they is a broad consensus they need to, and politicians on all sides support it, and nobody is dragging their heels.

Is this a fair assessment?


Europe is huge.  Some countries are doing better than others.

MrNubbz

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2407 on: May 11, 2020, 12:00:38 PM »
Ahh, it can't be more than an extra dollar or so a month to run my lagering fridge in hotter temps...
Taking one for the team good man,but i saw that post on 5 mass extinctions so ya better step it up
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

 

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