header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

 (Read 524587 times)

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12185
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2226 on: April 24, 2020, 01:29:09 PM »
It's not the proportions.  Of course a mid-engine car will have a different profile from a front-engine one.  My favorite car of all time is a Ford GT40, and it is mid-engined.  "Supercars" have been mid-engined since before the term was coined.

It's all the stupid styling lines and creases--that are not about function at all but rather about looking "aggressive"--that bother me.  And the new Corvette is particularly bad on this point.
Ahh, I can see your point there. I think "sharp edges/creases" have been design point streaming in unrelated to only supercars...

CWSooner

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 6045
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2227 on: April 24, 2020, 01:42:43 PM »
Yeah, at the same time cars have never been better, technically, many of them are quite ugly.

But then I think that ugly aesthetics dominate our culture these days.  Art, architecture, literature, music, movies, advertising, sports unis, clothing fashions, politics, etc.  Automobile styling is just a tiny piece of that.
Play Like a Champion Today

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71536
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2228 on: April 24, 2020, 01:44:13 PM »
Car design is subjective.  

CWSooner

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 6045
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2229 on: April 24, 2020, 02:04:02 PM »
There is an objective school of aesthetics.  It's certainly a minority viewpoint.

But here's the "for dummies" argument for objective aesthetics:

Is the Mona Lisa a beautiful painting or not?  Can we say?  If we can say that it is or isn't, how do we explain the fact that our current judgment about the painting is different from what other judgments in other times, has been?

The objective answer is that whatever the Mona Lisa is, it has been that since it was painted, and it will be that for as long as it lasts in reasonably the same condition.  It's either beautiful or it is not, and that it's beauty (or lack thereof) does not depend on what 50% +1 of the people say at any given moment.

Same with the Taj Mahal, the Acropolis, the Empire State Building, and the Ford GT40. 
Play Like a Champion Today

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71536
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2230 on: April 24, 2020, 02:37:25 PM »
There will be folks who like the Corvette design and folks who don't.  There are folks who don't like the GT40 design.

This is my favorite car design right now, I'm sure some don't like it:


utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17672
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2231 on: April 24, 2020, 02:39:19 PM »
Beautiful car, CD!

I'm a big fan of Aston Martin, I think they're currently making the most beautiful cars available.  That's subjective opinion, of course, and I recognize it as such. ;)


betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12185
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2232 on: April 24, 2020, 02:39:43 PM »
I suspect that with cars, they've run into a problem.

The cars are basically designed by computers for minimum Cd in a wind tunnel. Essentially they're all copies of each other, because they're all solving for the same solution. They have to fit a driver and passengers, and beyond that they're either a coupe/sedan, an SUV/crossover, or a truck. 

So they can't differentiate based on shape, and thus they have to do it on styling. And so you get a lot more angular/extreme looks, or other things to make it "look" unique since you can't change the shape, and some of those end up garish.

That said, my wife has a Lexus RX350. A few years ago, they went from a more rounded/bulbous design to something much more futuristic, sharp, and angular. I personally love it. The old look was boring. The new one is outstanding IMHO.

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71536
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2233 on: April 24, 2020, 02:43:05 PM »
Not only Cd, but also down force in performance cars.  It becomes important around 100 mph or so.  You don't want it to think it's a plane.

An airplane wing converts drag into lift, and a sports car should convert some drag into negative lift.


utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17672
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2234 on: April 24, 2020, 02:48:00 PM »
I suspect that with cars, they've run into a problem.

The cars are basically designed by computers for minimum Cd in a wind tunnel. Essentially they're all copies of each other, because they're all solving for the same solution. They have to fit a driver and passengers, and beyond that they're either a coupe/sedan, an SUV/crossover, or a truck.

So they can't differentiate based on shape, and thus they have to do it on styling. And so you get a lot more angular/extreme looks, or other things to make it "look" unique since you can't change the shape, and some of those end up garish.

That said, my wife has a Lexus RX350. A few years ago, they went from a more rounded/bulbous design to something much more futuristic, sharp, and angular. I personally love it. The old look was boring. The new one is outstanding IMHO.

Maybe?  But I've sometimes wondered, "Why wouldn't Ford just make cars that look exactly like a Ferrari or Aston Martin, but for the price of a Ford?"  And I'm not talking about all of the super-expensive wind tunnel testing or advanced computer modeling and such, that goes into the body design of a Ferrari.  Just simply the same basic design styling cues?  I'd love to drive a car that looked like a Ferrari, but had the reliability and longevity of a mass-produced American car, or Japanese car, or whatever.

Instead we get this?

  

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71536
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2235 on: April 24, 2020, 02:50:56 PM »
Car designs are trademarked and you can't legally make a duplicate in appearance.  Trademark law is interesting.

MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 17147
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2236 on: April 24, 2020, 02:55:21 PM »

Instead we get this?

 
Nothing wrong with "this" if it's dependable and efficient for 12 yrs or more.I'd buy the ugliest ride on the lot if it accomplishes that
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71536
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2237 on: April 24, 2020, 02:59:44 PM »
I doubt folks would really like the practicality of a typical Ferrari sports car design.  

Very low seating, no back seat, small trunk, limiting view from inside, ...

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17672
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2238 on: April 24, 2020, 03:11:11 PM »
I doubt folks would really like the practicality of a typical Ferrari sports car design. 

Very low seating, no back seat, small trunk, limiting view from inside, ...
All good points.  I'm accustomed to a very large SUV, a pickup, and my wife's convertible, so I'm not accustomed to limited views from the interior.  When I sit in the modern Mustang, Challenger, and Camaro, the sight lines are crazily bad to me.

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17672
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2239 on: April 24, 2020, 03:12:36 PM »
Car designs are trademarked and you can't legally make a duplicate in appearance.  Trademark law is interesting.
Eh, I'll go ahead and dismiss this one.  The modern Ferraris and modern Aston Martins have very similar lines.  Jaguars too.  No reason at all why Ford can't produce something that looks very, very similar, and avoid that issue.

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.