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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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MichiFan87

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1918 on: December 20, 2019, 06:54:00 PM »
If this battery technology lives up to the hype (or anything close to it), it would be dramatically accelerate the electrification of the energy sector and deployment of battery systems throughout the transportation sector and the grid.... Whether it's this one, and/or some other type of battery chemistry / technology, Lithium-Ion has inherent limitations and risks due to requiring heavy metals.

Of course, longer duration storage technologies are increasingly important, too.... This one was recently reported about and is rather intriguing: https://www.utilitydive.com/news/first-us-long-duration-liquid-air-storage-project-planned-vermont/569384/
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1919 on: December 20, 2019, 07:51:03 PM »
If this battery technology lives up to the hype (or anything close to it), it would be dramatically accelerate the electrification of the energy sector and deployment of battery systems throughout the transportation sector and the grid.... Whether it's this one, and/or some other type of battery chemistry / technology, Lithium-Ion has inherent limitations and risks due to requiring heavy metals.

Of course, longer duration storage technologies are increasingly important, too.... This one was recently reported about and is rather intriguing: https://www.utilitydive.com/news/first-us-long-duration-liquid-air-storage-project-planned-vermont/569384/
Exactly.

From what I've heard, one of the biggest problems with solar/wind is that you basically need to have NG gas plants on idle at all times to cover variation in power generation or power demand. I've actually heard this is one of the issues with nuclear as well, because it's designed to run at full load 100%, so it doesn't do well with varying demand. Going to nuclear tends to cause NG plants to proliferate.

Energy storage is a huge answer to either. I'm not sure we get anywhere near as close to "green" electricity as we hype without it.

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1920 on: December 22, 2019, 08:15:57 AM »
A gas turbine can start from cold in minutes, they don't idle.  That is their key advantage.

They are jet engines.

MichiFan87

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1921 on: December 22, 2019, 10:49:00 AM »
A gas turbine can start from cold in minutes, they don't idle.  That is their key advantage.

They are jet engines.
Some can. Others can't.

Same thing with batteries. Different chemistries have different uses. Some are highly responsive with lower discharge rates to help keep the grid balanced. Others have larger capacities with larger discharge rates but less responsiveness (pumped hydro being at the extreme end here).

Regardless, different storage technologies can match different gas generators to do whatever they do for the grid, and they're increasingly (if not already, depending on the circumstances) cost-effective.
“When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing”
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1922 on: December 22, 2019, 12:15:39 PM »
Good points. However the issue still stands that wind/solar currently need backup capability for times of low generation or variable load. As I understand, nuclear doesn't have variability in power generation, but doesn't deal with variable load well either. So either way you need fast-start backup capacity, and NG is the preferred for that at least these days--which means CO2 emissions.

Energy storage is a huge problem to solve, then. If we want green energy without requiring a lot of CO2-dependent backup, we need to figure out good, cost-effective, and environmentally-friendly energy storage.

MichiFan87

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1923 on: December 22, 2019, 12:39:08 PM »
....And that's why there's a lot of research and development in energy storage right now, including liquid air, compressed air, various gravity-based systems like EnergyVault, alternative battery chemistries, etc.... That and the commercialization of using hydrogen to eventually replace gas (they can be mixed together) for all its purposes (generation, heating, transportation, etc.) will be critical to reducing gas consumption, much like electrification is the key to reducing oil consumption.

Also, keep in mind that a lot of this will also be done on the demand-side, whether that's controlling the charging of electric vehicles or scheduling industrial processes to be done and buildings' HVAC systems to be used when renewable generation is highest / energy demand & prices are lowest.

I'm increasingly involved with a company that's involved in a lot of these emerging technologies, and there are going to be a lot of changes as they get deployed.
“When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing”
― Bo Schembechler

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1924 on: December 22, 2019, 10:31:27 PM »
A gas turbine cab start in minutes.  It is like a jet engine.  

CatsbyAZ

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1925 on: December 23, 2019, 04:15:23 PM »
Raining all last night and into the morning here in Southern California, the stormy cold front on its way into Arizona. Combine this year’s rain with last year’s as well and I don’t ever remember the Southwest region accumulating the winter volumes of rains as it does now. And from the looks of it I don’t ever remembering seeing so much snow on the Laguna Ranges in San Diego County (starts sticking at an elevation of 3500 ft about 30 miles from Pacific Coast).

847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1926 on: December 23, 2019, 04:20:45 PM »
Weather, Climate, and Environment. They all change, over time.


Here's a cool read I stumbled upon.


https://spectator.us/just-best-decade-human-history-seriously/
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1927 on: December 23, 2019, 04:48:20 PM »
Raining all last night and into the morning here in Southern California, the stormy cold front on its way into Arizona. Combine this year’s rain with last year’s as well and I don’t ever remember the Southwest region accumulating the winter volumes of rains as it does now. And from the looks of it I don’t ever remembering seeing so much snow on the Laguna Ranges in San Diego County (starts sticking at an elevation of 3500 ft about 30 miles from Pacific Coast).
Yeah, my parents are coming out from Colorado for the sun and warmth of SoCal this Christmas... Looks like they're not going to get much of either. 

CWSooner

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1928 on: December 23, 2019, 04:55:36 PM »
Weather, Climate, and Environment. They all change, over time.


Here's a cool read I stumbled upon.


https://spectator.us/just-best-decade-human-history-seriously/
Nice article.  We're using less stuff.  Who'da thunkit?
The one on why Meghan Markle is a disaster for the British monarchy was interesting too.
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MichiFan87

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1929 on: December 23, 2019, 09:58:13 PM »
No doubt that GDP and energy consumption are no longer correlated in developed countries. I'm a little skeptical of some other statements in the article, and I also wouldn't conflate organic food with the sustainability movement, considering indoor agriculture, plant-based meat substitutes (and eventually lab-grown meats) are definitely less energy intensive and will become cost-effective in time.

Overall, standards of living are still improving, but they are decreasing in the developed world, particularly due to growing income inequality.
“When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing”
― Bo Schembechler

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1930 on: December 23, 2019, 10:17:00 PM »
Organic food IMHO is a scam.

CWSooner

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1931 on: December 23, 2019, 10:49:38 PM »
. . . Overall, standards of living are still improving, but they are decreasing in the developed world, particularly due to growing income inequality.
Do you have a source for that, Michi?
Growing income inequality alone would not necessarily mean lower standards of living for anyone.  It could be that the living standards of the rich are rising faster than the living standards of the poor.
But, let's say that living standards in the developed world are declining.
Wouldn't that be analogous to the rich in our country getting somewhat less rich while the poor are getting richer?  In your opinion, would that be unjust?
Income inequality doesn't especially bother me unless it is clearly the cause of other problems.
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