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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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Mdot21

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1274 on: May 07, 2019, 12:47:40 PM »
Model S starts at $78K. Model X starts at 83K. Not talking about those. Those are FAR higher up the ladder.

The cheapest Model 3 that you can buy online is $39.5K. That's the 240 mile range, not the 300+ range model. It's true that it's decently fast for the price (5.3s 0-60), but I think beyond that it doesn't really compare to an M3. It's more comparable to a 3-series or A4 than an M3 or S4.

Either way, it's irrelevant. Tesla might not be around 3 months from now.
Yeah, and the Model 3 crushes all of it's competitors like the BM 3, MB C, and Audi A4 in sales. By a lot. The BMW M3 is 70k. The performance version of the Model 3 is in that same ball park price range as the M3 and it whips the M3 in performance/testing #'s.

Tesla is a luxury brand. They only make 3 models and two of their models- the 3 and the S- absolutely dominate the competition in sales. The Model S far outsells the BMW 7, Audi A8, or MB S Class, and the Model 3 far outsells the BMW 3/4, Audi A4, or MB C-Class. Tesla Model 3's are 39.5k just like the MB C-Class is 41k or the BMW 3 Series is 40k. By the time you add any options, those MB C-class and BMW 3 series are 50k+. Same thing with the Tesla. The 35k luxury EV is a pipe dream. Great marketing ploy for a company that spends $0 on advertising. They'd need to cheapen the F out of the car to sell it for $35k.

I think that's a pretty big exaggeration to say that Tesla won't be around in 3 months from now. This is a company that went from $200 million in revenue in 2011 to $22 billion in revenue in 2018, and they've been in far greater trouble many times in the past than they are right now and pulled through every single time.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1275 on: May 07, 2019, 12:49:50 PM »
Tesla Model 3 Cheaper Than Honda Accord — 15 Cost Comparisons


https://cleantechnica.com/2019/05/04/tesla-model-3-cheaper-than-honda-accord-15-cost-comparisons-updated/
I do want to highlight one additional thing.  This in no way invalidates the analysis of what is cheaper for a consumer, but the fact that Honda is able to produce these products, earn a profit, and not rely on taxpayer giveaways to the consumer, certainly puts them in a different place than Tesla. Part of this analysis relies on a federal subsidy that will halve in another 7 weeks, and go away entirely by the end of the year. And it's on a car that appears to be deeply unprofitable for Tesla, which is a company that's losing money like crazy. 

I'd say the "resale value" should be discounted for a company that had to raise money at high cost just to keep the lights on another six months, as there is an existential risk for the company that just told investors cars aren't their main business; it's all robotaxis
just told investors cars aren't their main business; it's all robotaxis

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1276 on: May 07, 2019, 01:23:02 PM »
Yeah, and the Model 3 crushes all of it's competitors like the BM 3, MB C, and Audi A4 in sales. By a lot. The BMW M3 is 70k. The performance version of the Model 3 is in that same ball park price range as the M3 and it whips the M3 in performance/testing #'s.

Tesla is a luxury brand. They only make 3 models and two of their models- the 3 and the S- absolutely dominate the competition in sales. The Model S far outsells the BMW 7, Audi A8, or MB S Class, and the Model 3 far outsells the BMW 3/4, Audi A4, or MB C-Class. Tesla Model 3's are 39.5k just like the MB C-Class is 41k or the BMW 3 Series is 40k. By the time you add any options, those MB C-class and BMW 3 series are 50k+. Same thing with the Tesla. The 35k luxury EV is a pipe dream. Great marketing ploy for a company that spends $0 on advertising. They'd need to cheapen the F out of the car to sell it for $35k.

I think that's a pretty big exaggeration to say that Tesla won't be around in 3 months from now. This is a company that went from $200 million in revenue in 2011 to $22 billion in revenue in 2018, and they've been in far greater trouble many times in the past than they are right now and pulled through every single time.
Tesla in Q1 saw their deliveries drop like a rock, despite opening up Model 3 shipments to Europe and China. Including those Model S and X cars (the high margin ones) which dropped to half their normal quarterly run rate. They lost $700M last quarter, which would have been $900M if not for sales of GHG emissions credits they've been sitting on.

They may be great vehicles... I get that they have acceleration numbers that are pretty damn good. And yes, they're a luxury brand. But the message from Elon [at least before last week] was that getting the ability to profitably make the Model 3 SR a mass-market car was the funding engine that would push them into everything else. Well, it's not. They were barely profitable in Q3 and Q4 last year [a lot of it also came from ZEV credit sales], and everything fell off a cliff in Q1 right around the time they actually opened up orders the 39.5K Model 3.

They might be able to make a profit with the high-margin Model 3 (long range and performance versions), but they exhausted their order book for the profitable cars in Q3 and Q4, and can't seem to make profit with a $39.5K Model 3.

And this is what I said on May 1:


Quote
But I'm pretty sure without a capital raise SOON, they're headed for a bankruptcy filing.
On May 2, they announced a capital raise. It was only $2.7B (they only expect to net $2.3B in proceeds due to the actions they had to take to make this raise viable). That's enough for maybe 6 months unless they get their financial house in order. 

If they can magically turn profitable, then it's fine. But given the hole they dug in Q1, and the fact that Q2 isn't projected to be profitable, Elon Musk will have to pull a rabbit out of a hat in order for this relatively modest capital raise. Because even his promises (Model Y and robotaxis) aren't likely to materialize until mid-2020 at best.

We'll see, though. Supposedly they're still guiding for 90-100K deliveries this quarter. If they manage to hit that, it suggests that Q1 was a blip. If they manage to be at least CLOSE to profitability, even if they end up with a loss, it suggests that Q1 was a blip. 

But as I said, I've been getting into this soap opera, and it's a company that seems to be ever desperate in their actions to try to stay afloat.

utee94

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1277 on: May 10, 2019, 08:21:15 AM »
plant a trillion trees in the thawed permafrost

and another trillion in west Texas would be nice
If by "plant another trillion trees in West Texas" you mean "plant another trillion saguaro cactus in West Texas" then I'm totally on board. :)

FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1278 on: May 10, 2019, 09:54:12 AM »
not sure if cactus help as much as trees, but every little bit is good
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utee94

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1279 on: May 10, 2019, 10:20:20 AM »
Most trees would have a pretty tough time surviving in most of West Texas.  

My dad is from Alpine, which is beautiful in its own way, but not much for being heavily forested... 


FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1280 on: May 10, 2019, 10:21:52 AM »
just need a little water
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utee94

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1281 on: May 10, 2019, 10:40:29 AM »
I love West Texas, I think it's beautiful.  But it definitely needs more than just a LITTLE water! 

CWSooner

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1282 on: May 10, 2019, 10:46:51 AM »
There are trees out there in Alpine, though.  They are visible in the pic.

Mesquite trees, IIRC from my days in the 6th Cav Brigade at Fort Hood.
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utee94

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1283 on: May 10, 2019, 10:49:35 AM »
Yeah, there are some trees.  Mostly scrub cedar (actually juniper), plus some trees that are planted in people's yards, watered heavily, and receive well above average rainfall amounts to survive.

But look in the foreground of that picture-- that's what grows natively.  That's what the actual rainfall can support.

CWSooner

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1284 on: May 10, 2019, 11:06:44 AM »
I gotcha.

I have a memory of refueling at a field site near Menard, flying home from that area.  Seems like there were mesquite trees all around us.  But Menard is farther east, of course, about halfway to Fort Hood.  Maybe they get enough rain there for mesquite to grow naturally.
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utee94

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1285 on: May 10, 2019, 11:57:55 AM »
That area's certainly not as arid as further west, but it's not like any part of Texas west of about I35 gets a ton of rain.  Even Austin is pretty dry compared to districts further east, and south.

CWSooner

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1286 on: May 10, 2019, 01:07:45 PM »
No, Menard certainly wasn't "green country."

I can also remember its smell.  I think there were sheep ranches close by.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1287 on: May 10, 2019, 01:26:14 PM »
I remember driving across Texas. I was able to tell that I was getting out of the desert when I started seeing that the things I drove over that were labeled "river" actually started having water in them... 

But yeah, I think reforestation is a damn good idea. It's not "the solution", of course, but it might be a contributing part of the solution. 

Maybe if we'd stop with all this "organic" farming we could reclaim some of that land for forests.

 

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