header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

 (Read 516851 times)

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71156
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1022 on: April 17, 2019, 07:35:08 AM »
When we bought the VW, our salesman told us he could get us a better deal if we financed part of it.  The loan was 1.9% over 60 months, so I took it.  Their initial offer was lower than I was prepared to spend.  We dickered a little bit on some options and that was that.

I thought I'd get maybe $3000 off list and they offered $5K out of the gate.  It wasn't the color I preferred, but I like it fine.

I think large volume dealers just move cars and make profit on numbers, incentives for selling X per month.

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17620
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1023 on: April 17, 2019, 08:22:17 AM »
Why do you say autonomous technology is more compatible with electric? Whether it's gas or electricity, they need to recharge/refuel periodically. I don't see how autonomous transport necessarily does any better there.
I suppose one thought here is that it's easier/safer for an autonomous vehicle to plug itself into an electrical outlet, than it is to "gas up?"  
But there are plenty of automated fueling systems out there in the world, and as of 2017 that includes the automated refueling of jets in-flight, so I'm reasonably certain safe processes and technology could be implemented.  It might not be particularly cheap, though.  And even the safest systems are going to have some margin of error.  Mistakes in automated refueling of gas/diesel/propane/natural gas vehicles have the potential to be more disastrous.

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71156
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1024 on: April 17, 2019, 08:30:18 AM »
Back in 1980, I was fresh out of grad school and on to a new job.  Gasoline was $1.16 a gallon, for off brand "low lead".  My car was a relative gas hog with a low compression 5.7 L engine.  I was certain gas prices would be headed higher routinely, so I wanted something more efficient, and bought one in 1984 that doubled the mpgs I got on the highway (and was painfully slow, but we had a 55 mph speed limit too).  I had read about "zero petroleum by 2000" etc.  I wondered if there would be enough to make chemicals.

All that has made me very circumspect about "expert predictions" 10+ years off.  They usually sound good, but very often are nonsense.  There was a well known expert in the day called Faith Popcorn of all things that made her living on such things and wrote books which I read, and nearly everything she predicted turned out to be rubbish.

I was convinced we'd have colonies on Mars by now.  It's 2019.  I was convinced the reciprocating internal combustion engine would be long gone replaced with something sensible, perhaps fuel cells, perhaps turbines, Wankels, something.  I figured tires were as good as they'd ever get.  I figured a 4 speed transmission was clearly as many gears as we'd ever need.

So, gas prices around here range $2.50-$3.00/gallon right now for regular.  On an inflation adjusted basis, gas should cost $3.60/gallon.  And we've gone to full unleaded which is more expensive to produce of course.

We have more forests today in the US than in 1900 by a large margin.  We were looking out over the ATL yesterday from the summit of Stone Mountain and it's nearly all a green canopy.  Places like the Smoky Mountains were almost denuded of trees by 1920, and now are completely covered (almost).  Sometimes, the dot dot dot method of prediction just doesn't work.

The problem with predicting climate is that the models have to be derived based on what has happened to date.  And it's far from easy to collect even simple things like mean global temperature.  The impact of rising CO2 levels ALONE would be only tenths of a degree, it's the forcing factors added to the model that turn that into something dire.  And that makes sense, a melting ice cap decreases the albedo of the planet leading to more warming, moisture levels may change leading to more cloud cover, etc.  It's a massively complex system, and I don't think any of the models are really very good.  Maybe one is by accident.  Of course that includes the possibility that it turns out to be worse than the models predict, we might have massive permafrost melting that releases more methane and things spiral out of control.

I still don't see a viable means of controlling CO2 emissions.  Europe has invested heavily in wind and solar, and their CO2 emissions have been rising faster than those in the US, where we've seen declines over the past years (in part because we have been energy hogs).  So, I hope for the best, I don't think humans are really going to reduce CO2 emissions any time soon.  "We" sign pieces of paper in lieu of real hard plans.

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71156
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1025 on: April 17, 2019, 08:31:09 AM »
Inductively recharging cars while they drive is an interesting possibility.

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71156
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1026 on: April 17, 2019, 08:34:27 AM »
I think I've mentioned this before, but imagine the following for intercity transport:

1.  Special lanes dedicated to EVs that have inductive charging of the cars (for tolls).
2.  EVs operating in condensed packets autonomously controlled and interlinked traveling at say 120 mph.
3.  The lead car might be a clone to break the wind.
4.  When cars near an exit, they break out of the packet and simply move right to exit with a full charge.
5.  The packet rejoins with a foot separation between vehicles.

No need for HSR in this scenario.  We'd need standardized batteries and inductive hookups of course, and autonomous driving.  The cars might all be "rentals".

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71156
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1027 on: April 17, 2019, 08:35:31 AM »
I've seen the Mississippi at its source  - no levies there anywhere.

Ha.

Anonymous Coward

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3187
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1028 on: April 17, 2019, 09:06:45 AM »
Why do you say autonomous technology is more compatible with electric? Whether it's gas or electricity, they need to recharge/refuel periodically. I don't see how autonomous transport necessarily does any better there.
I thought this was a good question. My guesses are these:
(1) that mainly there isn't a *need* for autonomous vehicles to also be EVs, but that it helps on the social side because people who want EVs are probably much less resistant to car autonomy than people who prefer internal combustion.
(2) autonomous fill-ups (whether by gas, electric outlet or wireless recharging) seem easier without gasoline. Wireless recharging (a reachable but further-off industry dream) sounds especially seemless, which does pair the EV and AV technology better together than AVs with gasoline.
(3) Then after that, a question: Aren't ANs going to require a computer to have its thumb on all the moment by moment stats for your vehicle (and perhaps for every vehicle in your vicinity)? If so, having fewer moving parts could make EVs more amenable to the switch.

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17620
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1029 on: April 17, 2019, 09:08:45 AM »
Inductively recharging cars while they drive is an interesting possibility.
There you go again with your golderned electromagnetism.  

MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 17099
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1030 on: April 17, 2019, 09:14:09 AM »
Ya really who's the Engineer around here......not me
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18797
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1031 on: April 17, 2019, 10:03:00 AM »
I just assume it'll be like in the movie "Minority Report" - cars on a track, all automated.  You type in where you want to go, it takes you - basically like those old, crumby toy cars on a track that would always fly off.  
In the movie, they went up vertical walls, but that wouldn't be necessary. And instead of open-air roads, I don't see why they wouldn't be halfway buried to let greenery grow over them so they'd be invisible from above...unless there's some solar component to it.


In 50 years, owning a "normal" car/truck/jeep will be like owning a boat now - an extra expense few can afford, which allows you to escape where 95% of other people can't go.  A luxury item.



“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18797
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1032 on: April 17, 2019, 10:05:17 AM »
I think I've mentioned this before, but imagine the following for intercity transport:

1.  Special lanes dedicated to EVs that have inductive charging of the cars (for tolls).
2.  EVs operating in condensed packets autonomously controlled and interlinked traveling at say 120 mph.
3.  The lead car might be a clone to break the wind.
4.  When cars near an exit, they break out of the packet and simply move right to exit with a full charge.
5.  The packet rejoins with a foot separation between vehicles.

No need for HSR in this scenario.  We'd need standardized batteries and inductive hookups of course, and autonomous driving.  The cars might all be "rentals".
This will be called the "fart car" by everyone within 6 months of it existing.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Anonymous Coward

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3187
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1033 on: April 17, 2019, 10:46:50 AM »
I don't think the cars in Minority Report were on tracks. They were on roads. True, they didn't seem to have wheels, but "track" implies a limited degree of freedom, not to mention a physical connection, as with roller coaster, trolleys and trains. The movie's roads were trackless. I don't think the plot ever rigorously addressed their engineering, so one mmight speculate the roads exhibited magnetic fields to float the vehicles.

Likewise, tracks in real life are unrealistic. Mechanical contact points (extra wear/tear) are a bad idea and limiting the system's degrees of freedom is not necessary.

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71156
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1034 on: April 17, 2019, 10:55:00 AM »
The problem with flying or trains or buses is what you do when you get "there".  Uber/Lyft are solving that today.  But people like their personal cars obviously.

I'm looking at a possibility for preserving that desire while also providing for energy efficiency high speed transportation.  Otherwise, folks are fighting what humans really want.

Gwinnett County here just voted against joining the "subway/bus system".  It's the second most populated county in the state.  We were out that way yesterday and really had to fight traffic coming home, the wife was amazed how bad it was at 4 PM.  We rarely drive anywhere except between 10 AM and 3 PM, and then we don't go far, usually.

SFBadger96

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 1243
  • Liked:
Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1035 on: April 17, 2019, 11:12:19 AM »
I don't think the cars in Minority Report were on tracks. They were on roads. True, they didn't seem to have wheels, but "track" implies a limited degree of freedom, not to mention a physical connection, as with roller coaster, trolleys and trains. The movie's roads were trackless. I don't think the plot ever rigorously addressed their engineering, so one mmight speculate the roads exhibited magnetic fields to float the vehicles.

Likewise, tracks in real life are unrealistic. Mechanical contact points (extra wear/tear) are a bad idea and limiting the system's degrees of freedom is not necessary.
Steel on steel is MUCH more efficient than rubber on asphalt. I don't know for certain, but I'm pretty sure the idea of magnetic levitation would require a great deal more energy than simple steel on steel. 
Nonetheless, the future of transportation infrastructure is interesting.

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.