Author
Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
(Read 524567 times)

Cincydawg · « **Reply #5376 on:** November 03, 2021, 11:53:06 AM »

They could build a thousand, but unless and until they are replacing coal plants, it means nothing. They need more electricity from all sources. A simple figure means nothing without context. They are still building coal plants too. That is the critical factor, whether they are actually reducing emissions or not, and the answer very clearly is NOT.

MaximumSam · « **Reply #5377 on:** November 03, 2021, 12:01:25 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2021, 11:53:06 AM

They could build a thousand, but unless and until they are replacing coal plants, it means nothing. They need more electricity from all sources. A simple figure means nothing without context. They are still building coal plants too. That is the critical factor, whether they are actually reducing emissions or not, and the answer very clearly is NOT.

This is a raw numbers analysis, not an economic one.

betarhoalphadelta · « **Reply #5378 on:** November 03, 2021, 12:08:35 PM »

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 03, 2021, 12:01:25 PM

This is a raw numbers analysis, not an economic one.

And the raw numbers are that coal is going up and is projected to go up.

One can say that *IF* their announced plans actually come to fruition and they *ACTUALLY* do build 150 nuke plants, that might mean that after those plants are active they'll be in a much better position and can deactivate their coal plants.

If so, kudos to them.

But in the shorter term, it's coal, coal, coal.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #5379 on:** November 03, 2021, 12:11:04 PM »

How many coal plants are they building at the same time? How many will they continue to operate unabated? That's the key metric. Coal is by a good margin the worst CO2 producer per kWhr. So, yes, they are building some nukes including SMRs because they need a lot more power, but they are also building a lot more coal plants. They are in no way doing better than the US, it's not remotely close.

Chinese companies to build 700 coal plants in and outside China - MINING.COM

China 'built over three times as much coal plant capacity as the rest of the world in 2020' - Energy Live News
China 'built over three times as much coal plant capacity as the rest of the world in 2020' - Energy Live News

China built more than three times as much new coal power capacity as all the other countries in the world combined last year.
That’s according to a new survey by the San Francisco-based think tank Global Energy Monitor (GEM) and the independent organisation Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air (CREA), which suggests China commissioned 38.4GW of new coal plants last year.
That translates to more than one large coal plant every week.
The research, which surveyed global coal-fired units through to 31st December, also shows 73GW of new coal power projects started in China, which is five times as much as in all other countries.
The report demonstrates Chinaʼs coal fleet grew by 29.8GW in 2020, while in the rest of the world’s net capacity decreased by 17.2GW.
In addition, China was home to 85% of the 87.4GW of proposed new global coal-fired capacity in 2020.

MaximumSam · « **Reply #5380 on:** November 03, 2021, 12:12:14 PM »

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 03, 2021, 12:08:35 PM

And the raw numbers are that coal is going up and is projected to go up.

One can say that *IF* their announced plans actually come to fruition and they *ACTUALLY* do build 150 nuke plants, that might mean that after those plants are active they'll be in a much better position and can deactivate their coal plants.

If so, kudos to them.

But in the shorter term, it's coal, coal, coal.

Yes. And for us, the short term is gas, gas, gas. But they are doing something that can replace emissions and we aren't.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #5381 on:** November 03, 2021, 12:13:12 PM »

This features on issue with combating CC, the world needs MORE power, a lot more, if it is to develop further. It's nice to have wind and solar and nuclear, but much of this needed new power is coal and NG. Adding wind capacity is nice, but it gets outstripped by the need for more and more power from any source. You have to look at replacement of older power stations and project how CO2 is going to evolve over time, not just how many "green" power plants get built.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #5382 on:** November 03, 2021, 12:17:40 PM »

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 03, 2021, 12:12:14 PM

Yes. And for us, the short term is gas, gas, gas. But they are doing something that can replace emissions and we aren't.

I suppose you really believe this to be true. It's not. Renewables in the US have been growing much faster than NG and will continue to do so. Most recent capacity added here is wind and solar. China's CO2 emissions are going up steeply, US trends are down.

U.S. Wind and Solar Installations Are Smashing Records, but the Trend May Not Last - Scientific American

2020 U.S. Power Report Card: Good Marks for Solar & Wind | NRDC
2020 U.S. Power Report Card: Good Marks for Solar & Wind | NRDC

Cincydawg · « **Reply #5383 on:** November 03, 2021, 12:19:52 PM »

Yeah, China is doing a great job, except they are not, at all, not in this universe.

MaximumSam · « **Reply #5384 on:** November 03, 2021, 01:32:07 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2021, 12:19:52 PM

Yeah, China is doing a great job, except they are not, at all, not in this universe.

China is spending a half trillion on nuclear plants. What are we doing? Sending our manufacturing to China, importing products back, then saying we cut emissions

MaximumSam · « **Reply #5385 on:** November 03, 2021, 01:34:35 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2021, 12:17:40 PM

I suppose you really believe this to be true. It's not. Renewables in the US have been growing much faster than NG and will continue to do so. Most recent capacity added here is wind and solar. China's CO2 emissions are going up steeply, US trends are down.

[img width=361.81 height=264]https://i.imgur.com/ImuMaJn.png[/img]

U.S. Wind and Solar Installations Are Smashing Records, but the Trend May Not Last - Scientific American

2020 U.S. Power Report Card: Good Marks for Solar & Wind | NRDC
2020 U.S. Power Report Card: Good Marks for Solar & Wind | NRDC

[img width=361.81 height=235]https://i.imgur.com/v01ZEIV.png[/img]

Your own graph shows natural gas has risen faster than anything, with the hope that they will be roughly even by 2050. Hey, we can dream.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #5386 on:** November 03, 2021, 01:34:48 PM »

We aren't saying we're cutting emissions, we are doing it. China is not, and won't be doing it either.

To laud China AT ALL for somehow helping with climate change is just ignorant.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #5387 on:** November 03, 2021, 01:44:34 PM »

Almost All New US Power Plants Built in 2021 Will Be Carbon-Free | Greentech Media

The new NG plants often are surge plants that will operate only some of the time, they are needed when you have a lot of wind and solar generating capacity in an area. China of course is building many new coal fired plants, the US is building zero.

China and to a lesser extent India and developing nations are where the CO2 problem exists in the main.

MaximumSam · « **Reply #5388 on:** November 03, 2021, 01:49:25 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2021, 01:34:48 PM

We aren't saying we're cutting emissions, we are doing it. China is not, and won't be doing it either.

To laud China AT ALL for somehow helping with climate change is just ignorant.

China roughly half of US emissions on a per capita basis

FearlessF · « **Reply #5389 on:** November 03, 2021, 02:00:36 PM »

yes, but China is trying to change that

by building coal plants

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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

Cincydawg

Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment

MaximumSam

Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment

betarhoalphadelta

Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment

Cincydawg

Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment

MaximumSam

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Cincydawg

Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment

Cincydawg

Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment

Cincydawg

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MaximumSam

Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment

MaximumSam

Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment

Cincydawg

Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment

Cincydawg

Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment

MaximumSam

Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment

FearlessF

Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment