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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #3108 on: July 19, 2020, 02:55:36 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on July 19, 2020, 02:34:14 PM

Some items I've read suggests the impact of the cattle industry and climate change is over blown, but of course one has to be alert to biased "studies".

We did once have a lot of bison (~60 million) on the plains, though their guts are a bit different than cattle (I see widely varying figures) of course.

https://agreenerworld.org/a-greener-world/a-convenient-untruth/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw3s_4BRDPARIsAJsyoLOWZyVQqeQdjqn2hC1-hYzdIFcVGUetBVRK9Jubg4toEkaFza2zPZgaApemEALw_wcB

https://mrdrscienceteacher.wordpress.com/2019/09/21/bison-vs-cow-greenhouse-gas-emissions/

It is true that methane degrades in the atmosphere, so you have to figure what is being lost versus what is generated each year, and from what source.  Oil and gas dropping and landfills are major sources of methane as well.  As with most things, it gets a bit complicated trying to decipher.
Regardless of the impact on climate change, it is significantly more resource-intensive to raise cattle than it is to grow vegetables, as it relates to calories produced for consumption. We devote a lot more land to agriculture to support our meat-heavy diet than we would if it were more plant-heavy. 

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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #3109 on: July 19, 2020, 03:00:40 PM »
No doubt, in part because we use feed lots.
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CWSooner

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #3110 on: July 19, 2020, 07:59:15 PM »
Last I checked, it takes more energy to convert a pound of corn into alcohol than the energy that's in the alcohol produced by the pound of corn.  That is not a recipe for environmental friendliness, which was the claim behind the whole program.
No doubt corn-growers would suffer if the subsidy were ended.  As would the alcohol plant operators.  I don't like subsidies, period, but I'd rather have straight subsidies than phony-green programs like corn-to-alcohol.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2020, 08:06:01 PM by CWSooner »
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MichiFan87

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #3111 on: July 19, 2020, 09:53:59 PM »
Ethanol is/was a bogus solution. No debate there (it was popularized before fracking made oil & gas cost-effective domestically), and conversely now many farmers / ranchers are being paid to put wind turbines and even solar installations on their land, which is a more stable and lucrative income stream for them.

As for meat alternatives, I agree that reducing consumption is the most obvious solution (which I have), just as energy efficiency is superior to renewables in terms of cost-effectiveness, but I still think that Beyond Meat / Impossible Foods / etc. could end up having a bigger impact compared to declining demand from people who become flex-/pesc-/veg-itarian/vegan, just as renewables are now having a greater impact than energy efficiency (and so will electrification before long).... I have also heard that plant/lab-based meats could be less healthy, but the main challenges are still cost-effectiveness and tastiness, and I suspect that the healthiness concerns will be resolved by the time those two are, as well.
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“When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing”
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #3112 on: July 20, 2020, 07:08:51 AM »
Gasohol is a great example of how a Federal program once started becomes very difficult to stop even if everyone agrees it makes no sense.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #3113 on: July 23, 2020, 09:47:45 AM »
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/23/palihapitiya-teslas-push-toward-energy-could-make-it-worth-trillions.html

Interesting perspective, perhaps all this happens with no government intervention at all?

If you combine home solar in a large was with batteries, a lot of folks could be free of the grid entirely.  How soon can that happen?  Much less distributed power.

The last time I ran the numbers in Ohio, the math wasn't anywhere close to working on solar only, no batteries.  I figured that was one reason why so few houses in the US have PV units, even in places like Phoenix and LV.
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FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #3114 on: July 23, 2020, 11:51:29 AM »
The first active leak of methane from the sea floor in Antarctica has been revealed by scientists.

The researchers also found microbes that normally consume the potent greenhouse gas before it reaches the atmosphere had only arrived in small numbers after five years, allowing the gas to escape.

Vast quantities of methane are thought to be stored under the sea floor around Antarctica. The gas could start to leak as the climate crisis warms the oceans, a prospect the researchers said was “incredibly concerning”.

The reason for the emergence of the new seep remains a mystery, but it is probably not global heating, as the Ross Sea where it was found has yet to warm significantly. The research also has significance for climate models, which currently do not account for a delay in the microbial consumption of escaping methane.

The active seep was first spotted by chance by divers in 2011, but it took scientists until 2016 to return to the site and study it in detail, before beginning laboratory work.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/first-active-leak-of-methane-from-antarctica-s-sea-floor-revealed-1.4310660
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MichiFan87

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #3115 on: July 23, 2020, 03:06:37 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on July 23, 2020, 09:47:45 AM
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/23/palihapitiya-teslas-push-toward-energy-could-make-it-worth-trillions.html

Interesting perspective, perhaps all this happens with no government intervention at all?

If you combine home solar in a large was with batteries, a lot of folks could be free of the grid entirely.  How soon can that happen?  Much less distributed power.

The last time I ran the numbers in Ohio, the math wasn't anywhere close to working on solar only, no batteries.  I figured that was one reason why so few houses in the US have PV units, even in places like Phoenix and LV.

It's not quite that easy, but that's always been Tesla's long-term strategy. People just thought it would happen sooner, but they've really diminished their solar and storage businesses since acquiring SolarCity for reasons I still don't really understand, so SunRun has become the top residential solar and storage installer.

The increase in electrification could make gas infrastructure largely obsolete, but consequently, electricity demand will likely increase too much (even after accounting for energy efficiency improvements) for roof-top solar to be the solution for a lot of customers, especially non-residential buildings. Some of those facilities have and will continue to develop their own microgrids, but utility-scale systems are always going to be more cost-effective within the same technology..... A more distributed system could certainly accelerate the decline of coal, nuclear, and even gas generation, though.
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FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #3116 on: July 23, 2020, 03:12:06 PM »
We have strings of batteries in all equipment offices to power electronic gear for internet/phone/IPTV when the local power goes out and the chance that the generator doesn't run.  We used to be required to have a minimum of 8 hours of battery backup

expensive upfront and a maintenance issue ongoing with that expense

not looking forward to buying and maintaining a string of batteries at my home
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #3117 on: July 23, 2020, 04:05:35 PM »
I still don't see a realistic path to combating CO2 generation fast enough to matter.
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FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #3118 on: July 23, 2020, 04:45:50 PM »
check back next week
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MichiFan87

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #3119 on: July 26, 2020, 10:32:50 PM »
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“When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing”
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #3120 on: July 27, 2020, 07:06:00 AM »
I don't think a letter by seven Republican Senators indicates why this shouldn't be a political issue.  It is, it will be in the future.  Nearly everything is.

And in typical government fashion, their solution is to throw money at it and hope something works.  I'm unimpressed with such vague notional concepts.

Give me a plan, not some aspiration, but a real plan.  There isn't one, and there's a good reason for that.

I keep hearing how wind and solar are now cheaper than any other option, so why do they need subsidies?  Companies will obviously seek the cheapest option for producing their products.  Maybe some sort of regulatory reform is needed, I don't know.  Maybe some sort of grid enhancement is needed, don't know that either.

These vague notional aspirational bills to throw money indiscriminantly at stuff is stupid, to me.

Show me the plan, outline the cost, and explain how much it will reduce climate change.

Nobody does that obviously because the real answer would be depressing.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 07:29:45 AM by Cincydawg »
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CWSooner

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #3121 on: July 27, 2020, 10:33:40 AM »
Throwing money at a problem works politically.  The people whose pockets the money fills will donate to your campaign.  The public at large thinks you've done something about the problem.

By the time it's obvious that the problem has not been addressed, you've moved on to bigger and better projects.

Better still, people assume that the problem has been fixed because the money has been spent, so they never notice that the problem has actually gotten worse.

See the entire U.S. Department of Education.  There should be a "Mal-" or "Mis-" or "Non-" as part of its name.
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