header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: VOTE - Who would win the 2003 CFP if it was played?

 (Read 2338 times)

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18796
  • Liked:
Re: VOTE - Who would win the 2003 CFP if it was played?
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2019, 10:23:51 PM »
I can't call Perry a "great" RB in 2003 at 5.0 yards per carry.  400 of his yards were against CMU and Houston.  His 200 yard game vs MSU required 51 carries.  He's in the Hart/Johnson group of RBs, not the Wheatley/Biakabutuka group.  Now don't get me wrong, it's great to have a guy that can tote the ball 50 times when you need him to, but for a college RB, 5.0 ypc isn't great.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37369
  • Liked:
Re: VOTE - Who would win the 2003 CFP if it was played?
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2019, 09:57:55 AM »
probably more on Carr and the O-coordinator, but when you have Braylon Edwards and Jason Avant on the otuside and Breaston in the slot there's no reason the RB should get 40 totes a game

I'm guessing the TE was open as well
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Mdot21

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 14323
  • Liked:
Re: VOTE - Who would win the 2003 CFP if it was played?
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2019, 10:54:51 AM »
Carr got those QBs off of an assembly line. Navarre wasn't the best he had, but fit the mold to a tee. Tall pocket passer with a big arm. Not as good as Henson or Brady or even Henne or Mallet, but certainly not a bad QB by any stretch.
Mallett was at Michigan all of 5 mins, so I don’t even really count him. 

Navarre was recruited by most schools to play TE. He didn’t sign with Michigan until Carr gave him the option to play to QB. Navarre had a big arm yes, but he was pretty damn inaccurate. His 3 yrs as a starter he completed 53%, 55%, and 59%. That’s not exactly great. His TD to INT ratio as a starter was 62 TD vs 30 INT. Ok. But not exactly great. 

Navarre also played with a boatload of talent that senior year. Life wasn’t exactly difficult playing with that crew. His OL was a seasoned veteran unit that had played together for a few years, his RB was the Doak Walker winner and a 1st round pick, and his 1-2-3 WRs were all NFL dfrat picks- his #1 receiver being the Biletnikoff winner the following year and a 1st round NFL draft pick. 

I’m not slamming him, I just giving an honest opinion. He really wasn’t all that imo. Lots of guys could’ve QB’d that team at the level he did. I’d have loved to see that team with say a Drew Henson or Andrew Luck type talent. That’d have been something to behold.

Mdot21

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 14323
  • Liked:
Re: VOTE - Who would win the 2003 CFP if it was played?
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2019, 11:05:25 AM »
I can't call Perry a "great" RB in 2003 at 5.0 yards per carry.  400 of his yards were against CMU and Houston.  His 200 yard game vs MSU required 51 carries.  He's in the Hart/Johnson group of RBs, not the Wheatley/Biakabutuka group.  Now don't get me wrong, it's great to have a guy that can tote the ball 50 times when you need him to, but for a college RB, 5.0 ypc isn't great.
To me Perry isn’t in the Hart/Johnson category because he had the NFL 1st round type of raw physical talent those guys clearly didn’t have. Perry was 6’1, 225 lbs with legit 4.5 speed. He was big, physical, strong, and he could run away from people.

He’s most definitely in the same Wheatley/Biakabatuka category in my opinion. He’s actually got a few things over both of those guys- his blocking and catching. Perry was a fantastic pass blocker and he caught the ball out of the backfield as good maybe even better than any Michigan RB that I’ve seen.

He doesn’t get to control who he plays. Doesn’t matter that 400 of yards were against Houston and CMU. The MSU game was as impressive of a game as I’ve ever seen from a college RB. He physically wore down that MSU defense on the road in East Lansing. To take 51 carries and take the beating- he just kept converting short yardage and controlling the clock and taking the hits and kept coming at them. Perry also completely dominated reigning national champs Ohio State in Ann Arbor.

The 3 games Michigan lost that yeast were because Perry couldn’t get rolling. He only had a handful of carries against Oregon and against Iowa and USC both those teams sold out to stop the run and Perry was only able to get 80 ish yards against either team. When he had his 25-30 carries and ran for 100+ Michigan rolled. He was the key to that entire operation.

Mdot21

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 14323
  • Liked:
Re: VOTE - Who would win the 2003 CFP if it was played?
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2019, 11:16:05 AM »
probably more on Carr and the O-coordinator, but when you have Braylon Edwards and Jason Avant on the otuside and Breaston in the slot there's no reason the RB should get 40 totes a game

I'm guessing the TE was open as well
That offensive crew Carr included weren’t exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer. 

I think a lot of that though was them not having complete confidence in Navarre. He was an inaccurate passer and his TD to INT ratio was 2:1. OK. Not exactly great. Especially not when really good college QBs are often 3:1 or even higher. Haskins this past year was 6:1 for example. Baker Mayfield’s in his 3 years starting at Oklahoma? 9:1.

fezzador

  • Player
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 576
  • Liked:
Re: VOTE - Who would win the 2003 CFP if it was played?
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2019, 11:52:03 AM »
That offensive crew Carr included weren’t exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer.

I think a lot of that though was them not having complete confidence in Navarre. He was an inaccurate passer and his TD to INT ratio was 2:1. OK. Not exactly great. Especially not when really good college QBs are often 3:1 or even higher. Haskins this past year was 6:1 for example. Baker Mayfield’s in his 3 years starting at Oklahoma? 9:1.
I want to say that by nature, pro-style QBs are prone to throwing more interceptions than their dual-threat counterparts.  They are heavily-reliant on good pass protection and timing, so when the pocket breaks down, they don't necessarily have the capability to roll out and throw "on the fly".  You know you have a great pocket QB when he has a strong understanding of what his strengths and weaknesses are - instead of throwing the ball up for grabs, he'll either take the sack or throw the ball away to save a down or preserve field position.

However, in today's game even pro-style QBs need to have at least a little mobility to succeed.  Defenses are getting faster and faster and love sitting ducks.

And that's not to say that dual-threat QBs don't have their weaknesses - very few have simultaneously strong and accurate arms, and make their living with their feet or throwing short and medium passes and let their playmakers do the rest.

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18796
  • Liked:
Re: VOTE - Who would win the 2003 CFP if it was played?
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2019, 01:36:42 PM »
To me Perry isn’t in the Hart/Johnson category because he had the NFL 1st round type of raw physical talent those guys clearly didn’t have. Perry was 6’1, 225 lbs with legit 4.5 speed. He was big, physical, strong, and he could run away from people.


If he was all that AND had a legit passing threat to take some focus off him, he'd average better than 5 yards per.  Period.

Other top RBs that year:
Sproles - 6.5 - KSU
Knight - 5.4 - BC
Turner - 5.3 - NIU
Jones - 5.9 - VT


Perry has the worst career ypc average of the top 17 UM RBs by yards gained.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

GopherRock

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2421
  • Liked:
Re: VOTE - Who would win the 2003 CFP if it was played?
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2019, 10:50:26 AM »
Another data point is that in the 2003 Jug game, Michigan came back at the same time Perry started ripping off 30 yards every time Navarre threw him a bubble screen. I think he's still running through the Metrodome end zone. 

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37369
  • Liked:
Re: VOTE - Who would win the 2003 CFP if it was played?
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2019, 11:26:03 AM »
probably would have made a good NFL TE
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.