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Topic: OT - Weird History

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FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3444 on: May 18, 2024, 09:56:04 AM »
Railway bikes; manufactured by the Sheffield Car Company, Three Rivers, Michigan, makers of 1, 2, and 4- man self-propelled railroad inspection hand cars. Photo likely in Pellston, Michigan 1910.

"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3445 on: May 19, 2024, 09:51:40 AM »
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Marilyn Monroe Sings "Happy Birthday, Mr. President" (1962)
In 1962, US President John F. Kennedy's birthday was celebrated with a lavish party at Madison Square Garden in New York City. During the event, Monroe took the stage and delivered a sultry version of "Happy Birthday," substituting "Mr. President" for Kennedy's name, a gesture that has served to fuel the persistent rumors that she and Kennedy had engaged in an affair. The performance was one of Monroe's last major public appearances.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3446 on: May 19, 2024, 10:52:44 AM »
Morning bathers in Las Vegas watch a mushroom cloud from an atomic test 75 miles away, 1953.

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Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3447 on: May 19, 2024, 11:52:21 AM »
ON MAY 16, 1842, about 100 pioneers with 18 wagons set out from the Independence, Missouri, area in one of the first wagon trains to the Northwest. Over the next two decades, tens of thousands would follow on the Oregon Trail, the longest of the great overland routes to the western frontier. “Oregon or the Grave.” “Patience and Perseverance.” “Never Say Die.” Such were the slogans that pioneer families painted on their wagons before striking out on the Oregon Trail, which began at Independence and stretched 2,000 miles across the Great Plains and Rocky Mountains to the valleys of the Oregon Territory.
 
The journey usually took four to six months. The settlers started out in the spring so they could get through the mountains before snow blocked the passes. They packed as much flour, bacon, salt, dried fruit, and other supplies as they could into the covered wagons, called “prairie schooners” because, from a distance, their white canvas tops looked like ship sails crossing the plains. Once on the trail, the settlers averaged about 15 miles a day. Many walked the whole trail beside the wagons.
The passage is from The American Patriot's Almanac: Daily Readings on America by William J. Bennett, John T.E. Cribb.


medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3448 on: May 20, 2024, 09:43:03 AM »
ON MAY 16, 1842, about 100 pioneers with 18 wagons set out from the Independence, Missouri, area in one of the first wagon trains to the Northwest. Over the next two decades, tens of thousands would follow on the Oregon Trail, the longest of the great overland routes to the western frontier. “Oregon or the Grave.” “Patience and Perseverance.” “Never Say Die.” Such were the slogans that pioneer families painted on their wagons before striking out on the Oregon Trail, which began at Independence and stretched 2,000 miles across the Great Plains and Rocky Mountains to the valleys of the Oregon Territory.
 
The journey usually took four to six months. The settlers started out in the spring so they could get through the mountains before snow blocked the passes. They packed as much flour, bacon, salt, dried fruit, and other supplies as they could into the covered wagons, called “prairie schooners” because, from a distance, their white canvas tops looked like ship sails crossing the plains. Once on the trail, the settlers averaged about 15 miles a day. Many walked the whole trail beside the wagons.
The passage is from The American Patriot's Almanac: Daily Readings on America by William J. Bennett, John T.E. Cribb.
I tried it, it did not go well

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3449 on: May 20, 2024, 10:07:09 AM »
Here is some weird history:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HWywUVvm3E

This whole series has been pretty good.  It is a week-by-week history of WWII done as if in real time.  

Anyway, on this week's episode they went into detail about something that I knew about in general but I was pretty vague on the specifics.  Starting at about 19:30 they explain the Point System that General Marshall came up with after VE Day to decide which guys would get to go home and which would stay in the Armed Services which (for the vast majority) would have meant heading to the Pacific for the invasion of Japan.  

It was first explained to me by a WWII vet I worked with who was one of the younger ones.  He was born in 1926, graduated from HS on D-Day (June 6, 1944), enlisted immediately upon graduation, and first saw combat at the outskirts of the Battle of the Bulge in December, 1944 so about six months after HS Graduation.  When the Germans surrendered on May 8, 1945 he had been in the service for 11 months and in combat for six.  That sounds like a LOT of service to me and it is . . . compared to me and probably to all or nearly all of us on this board but in the scheme of things at the time, his service was VERY limited compared to a lot of other guys . . .

Example of one of those "other guys":  When I was a kid I mowed a lot of yards and one of my customers was a significantly older WWII veteran.  I think he was born in about 1920.  Anyway, he joined the US Army BEFORE Pearl Harbor.  By VE day his service record included all of the following (these are just the things I know of from talking to him, I'm sure there was more):

  • In the service for around five years (I know he joined in 1940 but not sure if it was early 1940 which would mean ~65 months by May, 1945 or late in 1940 which would mean around 53 months by May, 1945.  
  • Landed in N. Africa as part of Operation Torch.  
  • Helped chase Rommel across and eventually out of N. Africa.  
  • Landed in Sicily.  
  • Helped kick the Germans out of Sicily.  
  • Landed in Italy.  
  • Helped liberate Southern Italy.  
  • Transferred to England.  
  • Landed in Normandy on D-Day.  
  • Helped push the Germans back from Normandy to mid-Germany.  

I have the utmost respect for the first guy mentioned above and, as I said earlier, his service sounds like a lot to me and was a lot more then probably nearly all of us here but, compared to the second guy mentioned above, his service was minimal.  

General Marshall's idea was to let the guys with the most service go home first.  When the first guy mentioned above explained all this to me, he joked that he had "almost no points".  Near as I can tell he'd have had around 20-25 points.  That and $1 will get you a cup of coffee.  You needed 85 points to go home.  The second guy mentioned above probably had easily double the 85 points needed to go home.  

Anyway the points, as explained in the video are:
  • 1 point for each month in service
  • 1 point for each month overseas
  • Points for medals for valor
  • Points for battle stars
  • 5 Points for each Purple Heart
  • 12 Points for being a father (12 for each kid up to three)

I find this interesting in part because it was a monumental logistical challenge.  The US had literally MILLIONS of men deployed all across the world and under this system they were going to reshuffle all of them and somehow end up with what they needed in terms of both numbers and experience ready to hit the beaches of Japan by November 1, 1945.  

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3450 on: Today at 07:32:29 AM »
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Island of Saint Helena Discovered (1502)
The uninhabited island of St. Helena was discovered by Portuguese navigator João da Nova in the eastern South Atlantic, 1,200 mi (1,931 km) west of Africa. It became a port of call for ships sailing between Europe and the East Indies and was annexed by the British East India Company in 1659. Because of the island's remoteness, when the British exiled Napoleon Bonaparte in 1815, he was sent there. It became a British crown colony in 1834.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3451 on: Today at 07:42:56 AM »
An invasion of mainland Japan would have been rough.  The Japanese were starving as it was.  Just taking Okinawa was incredibly bloody for both sides.

The Battle of Okinawa was one of the bloodiest in the Pacific, with approximately 160,000 casualties combined
The Battle of Okinawa was one of the bloodiest in the Pacific, with approximately 160,000 casualties combined1The Americans bore over 49,000 casualties including 12,520 killed, while Japanese losses were even greater, with about 110,000 Japanese soldiers losing their lives2. Civilians bore the highest toll, with over 300,000 deaths
Civilians bore the highest toll, with over 300,000 deaths3More than 70,000 Japanese soldiers and Okinawan conscripts were killed defending the island4. The estimated pre-war 300,000 local population of Okinawa saw 149,425 killed, died by suicide or went missing
The estimated pre-war 300,000 local population of Okinawa saw 149,425 killed, died by suicide or went missing

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3452 on: Today at 03:37:17 PM »
An invasion of mainland Japan would have been rough.  The Japanese were starving as it was.  Just taking Okinawa was incredibly bloody for both sides.

The Battle of Okinawa was one of the bloodiest in the Pacific, with approximately 160,000 casualties combined1. The Americans bore over 49,000 casualties including 12,520 killed, while Japanese losses were even greater, with about 110,000 Japanese soldiers losing their lives2. Civilians bore the highest toll, with over 300,000 deaths3. More than 70,000 Japanese soldiers and Okinawan conscripts were killed defending the island4. The estimated pre-war 300,000 local population of Okinawa saw 149,425 killed, died by suicide or went missing
It would have been brutal.

I honestly think the worst part for America would have been turning US Soldiers and Marines into absolute monsters. The Japanese were training school children to effectively be kamikaze warriors by approaching Soldiers as if to ask for candy then detonating grenades when they were close enough. If that tactic had been employed the inevitable response would have been US Soldiers formally or informally adopting a "shoot first ask questions later" policy toward ALL Japanese civilians, even the children. Those guys would have done it, then had nightmares for decades about the Japanese children that they blew away.

MrNubbz

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3453 on: Today at 05:55:36 PM »
Yes the A-Bombs saved many GI lives,and if the IJF had it no doubt they wouldn't hesitate
Don't go to bed with any woman crazier than you. - Frank Zappa

 

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