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Topic: Understanding the NCAA Tournament

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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Understanding the NCAA Tournament
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2022, 07:31:48 PM »
That was the reason for the initial expansion from 64 to 65. The Mountain West split off of the Wac, and the other conferences weren't willing to decrease the number of at large bids by one. Then they decided that one play in game was stupid, so they added the other three (as if that was any less stupid). 
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Understanding the NCAA Tournament
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2022, 07:38:06 PM »
They caved in so that the 7th-best team in a P5 conference would still get in all the time.

I cant think of anything more pathetic.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Understanding the NCAA Tournament
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2022, 07:53:34 PM »
Now that I think on it, the addition of the other three play in games may very well have coincided with the AAC splitting off of the Big East. 
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

ELA

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Re: Understanding the NCAA Tournament
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2022, 07:59:38 PM »
Now that I think on it, the addition of the other three play in games may very well have coincided with the AAC splitting off of the Big East.
The initial move from 64 to 65 was due to the increase in conferences.

The move from 65 to 68 was a compromise after the Coaches association was pushing to expand it all the way to 96

FearlessF

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Re: Understanding the NCAA Tournament
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2022, 08:15:15 PM »
I remain annoyed they went from 64 to 68 teams. "We have the most perfect postseason in sports? Let's mess around with it."
I remain annoyed by the 4-team playoff in college football
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Understanding the NCAA Tournament
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2022, 08:27:47 PM »
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

bayareabadger

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Re: Understanding the NCAA Tournament
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2022, 08:28:28 PM »
I look forward to as close to as perfectly built a postseason as we have. Let us brush aside this fiddle faddle about expansion.

The current system pushes us to the midst of power conference mediocrity with like 44-46 teams. That feels about right. Letting in more power conference mediocrity seems unnecessary, especially since it likely wouldn't let anyone particularly more interesting in. Instead we get a 32-team bracket with about six play-in games.

Those top teams get to those sweet, sweet byes, except they have to earn it a bit. That lets in your batch of auto bids, which ends up good for the sport, good for interest, good for the product. And if a team with a "bye" game loses, well, tough s$&%. It's a great setup. 

ELA

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Kris60

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medinabuckeye1

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Re: Understanding the NCAA Tournament
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2022, 10:56:24 PM »
They caved in so that the 7th-best team in a P5 conference would still get in all the time.

I cant think of anything more pathetic.
I'm honestly shocked to see this opinion from you of all posters.  In football you are our resident extremist on the "best teams only" side of things so why, in BB do you not object to letting in nearly two dozen crappy tallest midgets that are nowhere near as good as the "7th best team in a P5 conference".  

To put some data behind this, the 7th best teams in the Power leagues:
  • #37 Michigan in the B1G
  • #49 TCU in the B12
  • #51 your very own Gators in the SEC
  • #67 Creighton in the BEast
  • #80 UVA in the ACC
  • #106 ASU in the P12


Even #106 ASU would be the best team in 12 leagues (Ivy, ASUN, B-West, Sunbelt, NEC, B Sky, Patriot, Horizon, MEAC, Southland, SWAC.  Your bubble Gators would be the best team in 19 of the 32 leagues.  

As is, the tournament is made up of:
  • Roughly the 50 best teams, and
  • Roughly 18 crappy tallest midgets.  

By expanding to 80 it would be made up of:
  • Roughly the 67 best teams, and
  • Roughly 13 crappy tallest midgets

As is, roughly one fourth of the teams in aren't good enough to be there.  IMHO, that is too many tallest midgets.  I'm ok with some.  As I've said in football, I'm fine with one out of eight.  I'm not fine with as many as we have now.  


FearlessF

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Re: Understanding the NCAA Tournament
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2022, 11:06:08 PM »
what's the lowest/highest seeded team to get to the championship game or even the final 4 in the past 20 years?

the others don't belong
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ELA

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Re: Understanding the NCAA Tournament
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2022, 11:29:12 PM »
You would be eliminating any point of the regular season.  Low majors, sorry, you're out before it starts.  High majors, congrats, just based on your conference membership, you basically have to just be not horrible.

Beyond that, why do we want better, mediocre P5 teams in?  Do we want them to win?  I sure as hell don't.  It's part of the reward for a great season, that you open with a few facto bye game.  In the small minority of cases you lose that bye game,.that's fine, and fun.

It would be one thing if these mid majors were consistently.taking advantage of their autobids, upsetting a bunch of teams, and winning titles.  They aren't.  So replacing them with blah P5 teams, will either produce the same results, but in a less interesting manner, or they'll start winning more, which I think would actually be worse.

Football is different, because the field is so small.  By giving a spot to an autobid, you are taking a spot from a legit title contender, a worthy top 5 claim team.  In basketball the bubble teams have zero claim to be deserving of a national title.  They are just the beneficiary of the format of the event.  That's what it is, an event, that includes the conference tourneys.  Once you start taking it as seriously as being upset that the 9th place Big Ten team is out to let the SWAC champ in, you are treating it as something completely different than what it is.  If that's what you want, that's fine.  But in that case you shouldn't want any sort of monstrous single elimination bracket

« Last Edit: March 07, 2022, 11:38:03 PM by ELA »

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Understanding the NCAA Tournament
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2022, 12:33:45 AM »
I'm honestly shocked to see this opinion from you of all posters.  
OAM doesn't like the NCAAT... Too "entertaining". 

He'd prefer Duke and UNC and UK and Kansas battle it out head to head each year. They're the best. Everyone else need not apply.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Understanding the NCAA Tournament
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2022, 01:33:55 AM »
I'm honestly shocked to see this opinion from you of all posters.  In football you are our resident extremist on the "best teams only" side of things so why, in BB do you not object to letting in nearly two dozen crappy tallest midgets that are nowhere near as good as the "7th best team in a P5 conference". 

To put some data behind this, the 7th best teams in the Power leagues:
  • #37 Michigan in the B1G
Well basketball is beyond help.  It has decided that the regular season should be a prelude to the good stuff.  Having 300+ programs in Division 1 is.....a choice.  Basically, it's not going to change, so who cares?


When it comes to catering to the 7th-best team in a big-boy conference.....well often times that team has like 10 losses.  Look at the "best" 7th-place team - Michigan (or MSU, same thing):
17-13
1 game over .500 in-conference
sub-.500 record on the road
2-7 vs top 25 teams
.
Set aside the tallest midgets like St. Francis of Assisi or Binghamton.....just looking at the resume in a vacuum.....THIS is what we want competing in a national championship tournament?!?

What's the point?  If the defense for 68 teams and everyone with 5 breathing players getting in is buzzer-beaters, then you're honestly just advocating for a certain volume of games so that close endings are a certainty.
It has nothing to do with the brackets or earning your way in or the bubble or anything else - it's simply wanting enough games to happen so that some of them provide us with exciting endings.  
Not about competition.
Not about who's best.

“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

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