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Topic: Top 25

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #518 on: November 27, 2019, 05:58:10 PM »


I have no idea how someone can attempt to extend the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality to the evolution of the college football postseason, when in fact it is literally and unequivocally a move in the opposite direction from that.


You're equating a team getting a trophy for winning the Birmingham Bowl with a potential national championship trophy.  Mmmmkay.


Actually, let's look at it:
in the old bowl system, there would generally be 2-3 teams with a real chance at the national championship.  They didn't necessarily play each other, and it was 'mythical' because of that.  

Then we had the BCS (sans the B10 and PAC, because they were spay-shul), which pitted the top 2 teams.  Exactly 2.  

Now we have a 4-team playoff, which expand those with NC hopes x2.

We're going to multiply that by 2 again because........why?  Any and every expansion is to have more fanbases enjoying a chance at a NC - making the activity of crowning a champ tilted far towards entertainment and further away from competition.

Every expansion of the playoff gets further away from an earnest attempt at identifying the best team.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #519 on: November 27, 2019, 06:26:11 PM »
Apparently, the current runner up gets a trophy, which the Bama players famously smashed to smithereens.

CWSooner

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #520 on: November 27, 2019, 07:07:43 PM »
. . . in the old bowl system, there would generally be 2-3 teams with a real chance at the national championship.  They didn't necessarily play each other, and it was 'mythical' because of that. 

Then we had the BCS (sans the B10 and PAC, because they were spay-shul), which pitted the top 2 teams.  Exactly 2.
I think you're thinking of the "Bowl Alliance."  The Rose Bowl didn't want to play because it would have lost its guaranteed Big Ten-Pac-10 matchup.

But the BCS that followed it included all the power conferences.

Quote
Now we have a 4-team playoff, which expand those with NC hopes x2.

We're going to multiply that by 2 again because........why? 
Oh, come on--you know the answer to that!  It's so the SEC can get 4 teams into the playoff.  How would it do that?  Simple--the top two from each division.

Quote
Any and every expansion is to have more fanbases enjoying a chance at a NC - making the activity of crowning a champ tilted far towards entertainment and further away from competition.

Every expansion of the playoff gets further away from an earnest attempt at identifying the best team.
I agree with this and, actually, with the rest of your post as well.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #521 on: November 27, 2019, 07:55:01 PM »
Excuse me while the committee makes me vomit.....the top 14 teams are now listed by number of losses.  Yep, Baylor's win over 6-4 Texas let them jump up to the 1-loss tier.


Chimpanzees could do the job the way they're doing it.  NO 1-loss team is better than any undefeated team.  NO 2-loss team is better than any 1-loss team.  It's right there, written in the stone tablets!

“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

FearlessF

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #522 on: November 27, 2019, 08:58:55 PM »
dude, 

It's been this way forever and shows no sign of changing

have you vomited the past 20 seasons

I know you hate the laziness of the voters, but they always default to number of losses by the final poll
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #523 on: November 27, 2019, 10:27:33 PM »
I guess I see the strides they've made in baseball with sabermetrics and, you know, intelligence and don't understand why it hasn't crept into college football.


Although they still have decision-makers with antiquated thinking as well - take for instance the HOF voter who's only checking Derek Jeter's box because.....well, just because.  Because it's his vote to abuse.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not genuinely outraged by any of this, I'm just tired of the lazy stupids continually having a seat at the table.  The "because I said so" crowd.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

FearlessF

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #524 on: November 27, 2019, 10:45:41 PM »
the game is ever evolving

the conferences aren't the same

we have scholarship limits

players are to be paid above board soon

we have a 4-team playoff

sportswriters don't decide MNCs

be patient - another few decades and you might get your wish

a 3 loss team ranked above a group of 1 loss teams
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Kris60

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #525 on: November 28, 2019, 12:02:35 AM »
I guess I see the strides they've made in baseball with sabermetrics and, you know, intelligence and don't understand why it hasn't crept into college football.


Although they still have decision-makers with antiquated thinking as well - take for instance the HOF voter who's only checking Derek Jeter's box because.....well, just because.  Because it's his vote to abuse.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not genuinely outraged by any of this, I'm just tired of the lazy stupids continually having a seat at the table.  The "because I said so" crowd. 
I get it, but there is no “correct” way to do it.  Any ranking anyone could come up with for whatever reasons they cited could be picked apart.

Cincydawg

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #526 on: November 28, 2019, 08:15:49 AM »
I think it reasonable to start with the P5 teams rank ordered by number of losses and then see if any need to be adjusted.  At times, no adjustment might be needed.

I also think it far easier to criticize a "poll" than to defend one's own.  I have to start with defining my criteria for a poll.  That can vary of course.

bayareabadger

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #527 on: November 28, 2019, 08:45:42 AM »
I guess I see the strides they've made in baseball with sabermetrics and, you know, intelligence and don't understand why it hasn't crept into college football.


Although they still have decision-makers with antiquated thinking as well - take for instance the HOF voter who's only checking Derek Jeter's box because.....well, just because.  Because it's his vote to abuse.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not genuinely outraged by any of this, I'm just tired of the lazy stupids continually having a seat at the table.  The "because I said so" crowd. 
OAM, much respect, but the bolded is nonsense. You know how they decide the postseason in baseball? Wins and losses. Nothing to do with sabermetrics. And you know what they did with their playoffs? They expanded them, despite the fact their postseason is somehow more random than football's despite having series.

We get it, the folks picking the playoff need to be more subjective in their choice. Why should they do this? Is it because there's a real good subjective way to do it? No it is not. It's because the mere appearance of a flattened, objective standing upsets you because it's not special enough. It's not interesting and different enough. We can't even ask who's most deserving, because we need to have more subjective rankings of who is "best," and these are the rankings that don't even count. 

SI's Ross Dellinger had an interesting thought experiment. He suggested you just go six teams, five P5 conference champs, one G5 picked by the committee and committee sets seedings. It's near as hard and fast objective as one can be. It doesn't give a trophy to someone who can't earn a trophy by objective means (perhaps we could amend it to have only division games count in standings). And people lashed out at the idea, because getting highly subjective is one of the great facets of this sport for better or worse. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #528 on: November 28, 2019, 09:11:42 AM »
Once you get to 8 teams, you produce a "playoff champion", nothing more than that.  The odds are that the "best team" is not going to win such a playoff.

bayareabadger

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #529 on: November 28, 2019, 10:24:03 AM »
Once you get to 8 teams, you produce a "playoff champion", nothing more than that.  The odds are that the "best team" is not going to win such a playoff.
So this is interesting because we have a playoff champion now, but once it gets to eight teams, it feels different somehow. Like, lets look at SRS, which is a mildly blunter tool to decide best, but more nuanced than record.

Since they playoff started, we've seen two of the "best" team's win the playoff. This accounts for all games, so in theory, the playoff winner gets the biggest boost. (Biggest surprise for me there, 2015 Clemson being rated behind Bama because of how good that defense was. That Clemson team was better than the title team, I think).

BCS missed the top team in 2010, 2007, 2006, 2003 (kinda), 2002, 2000 and 1998. 

Anyway, food for thought as we're stuck with NFL games till the Egg Bowl. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #530 on: November 28, 2019, 10:40:00 AM »
The "best team" now is more likely to win the championship than in any 8 team set up, it's probability.  Even so, beating two top tier teams in a row is not that likely even for a truly superior team.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #531 on: November 28, 2019, 10:56:18 AM »


players are to be paid above board soon


Who knew the SWC was simply before its time?
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

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