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Topic: 100 RBs who had lots of carries and didn't stink

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Cincydawg

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #350 on: April 08, 2020, 12:34:20 PM »
It's a bit odd to me that the shovel pass counts as passing yardage.  Some QB does a forward handoff and the RB runs for 75 yards and a TD and the QB gets the credit (most of it).  The RB looks like he has good hands.


OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #351 on: April 08, 2020, 12:39:57 PM »
Same with a screen pass.  And sometimes, same with an option RB.  You have, idk, say Eric Bieniemy waltz in for a 9 yard TD run, but his QB gained 4 yards and got clobbered before the option pitch.  
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Cincydawg

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #352 on: April 08, 2020, 12:45:03 PM »
Yeah, in theory the QB could run 98 yards and pitch in the last yard to the RB.  I wonder how extreme that has ever been in a real game.

FearlessF

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #353 on: April 08, 2020, 12:53:27 PM »
go back to the 70s with the Sooners
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rolltidefan

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #354 on: April 08, 2020, 01:00:45 PM »
I get the idea, but it gets tough to determine.  What if they ran the wrong route?  Does it get charged to the OT if he whiffed his block and the QB got drilled as he released it?  What if the missed blitzer though, was the result of the QB misreading the rush.=?

not worried about anything other than the throw/catch, imo. we make those determinations for errors in other sports, so why not here? sacks go against the qb and oline, though, so if we want to create another category for causes of turnovers by players other than the ball carrier(s), then i'm down for that too.


so this play should go down as passing yardage??? 75 yards!!!


Taylor Martinez 75-Yard TD Run vs. Wisconsin in Big Ten Championship - YouTube
anomalies happen, but no. once the ball crosses the los, i'd count as a running play.

FearlessF

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #355 on: April 08, 2020, 01:02:06 PM »
we have wild pitches and passed balls in baseball
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CWSooner

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #356 on: April 08, 2020, 03:48:22 PM »
go back to the 70s with the Sooners
The late, great Jack Mildren in particular was a master of the downfield pitch.
Seems like there was some issue about how to credit the rushing yardage there for a year or two around 1971-72.  The bottom line ended up being that there could only be one rushing attempt per play, so the guy who ended up with the ball got all the credit.
Maybe somebody should have created a category for pre-pitch yardage.  They could have called it "pre-pitch yards."
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bayareabadger

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #357 on: April 08, 2020, 05:31:15 PM »
so this play should go down as passing yardage??? 75 yards!!!


Taylor Martinez 75-Yard TD Run vs. Wisconsin in Big Ten Championship - YouTube
I know some schools would count that against their pass defense in the unofficial stats they keep. Also some count screens as runs. 

CWSooner

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #358 on: April 08, 2020, 06:05:02 PM »
Maybe any pass behind the line of scrimmage should be counted as a run.  If it's incomplete, it's a rush for zero yards.

Now that I've made that suggestion, I don't know that I like it.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #359 on: April 08, 2020, 06:14:34 PM »
We'd have specified stats for all of it, if football was invented yesterday.  But it wasn't.
Dare I ask how you'd score a halfback pass?  Rare today, but back in the 40s and earlier, it was common.  For many teams, if you just looked at the stats, you could not figure out who the QB was vs who the RB was - their pass attempts and rush attempts were so similar - and not just those 2 guys, either.  You'd have 4 guys with 20+ pass attempts in a season, when passes were few and far between.
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CWSooner

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #360 on: April 08, 2020, 06:25:59 PM »
We'd have specified stats for all of it, if football was invented yesterday.  But it wasn't.
Dare I ask how you'd score a halfback pass?  Rare today, but back in the 40s and earlier, it was common.  For many teams, if you just looked at the stats, you could not figure out who the QB was vs who the RB was - their pass attempts and rush attempts were so similar - and not just those 2 guys, either.  You'd have 4 guys with 20+ pass attempts in a season, when passes were few and far between.
Are you responding to my post about late pitches in triple-option offenses?  It seems like maybe for one season or two some scorers were splitting the rushing yards for a play with a late pitch between the QB and the HB.  I'm not sure about that.  I just remember either in the '72 or '73 season where reporters were making it very clear that the rushing yards on such plays all went to the guy who ended up with the ball.
I don't see any problem with a halfback pass.  It's a pass attempt.
If there is a problem, it might be one of insufficient historical data.
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SFBadger96

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #361 on: April 08, 2020, 06:35:25 PM »
Dropped in on this after a while off. Alan Ameche and Billy Marek deserve a little Badger love. Was Marek good enough to make the top 10? Who am I to say. If so, probably around 9 or 10. But Ameche was.

My top 10: 
1) Taylor
2) Gordon
3) Dayne
4) Ameche
5) Moss
6) Ball
7) Fletcher
8) White
9) Davis
10) Clay

I ding Calhoun for his duration. I have White higher than Clay. White shared the backfield with Ball and Gordon (and Clay), and was good enough to keep finding the field quite a bit (and--as a freshman--had over 1000 yards Clay's junior/last year, including significantly more yards per carry on fewer, but not dramatically fewer carries). Moss higher than Ball should be controversial, particularly in that he, too was sharing the backfield with another RB on the list. I think Ball/Gordon/White played for better offensive teams than Moss/Fletcher. I suppose I should hold the whole cocaine thing against Moss since it happened in college, but man, that guy could play (of course, all the ones on this list could). That I was a student watching Moss live probably biases me in his direction.

Dayne is a funny one. If he had the same career today, I don't think he gets the Heisman. My impression (terribly uninformed and flawed, though it is) is that the voters in 1999 cared more about the tradition/history of the award, and thus struggled with the idea of not giving it to a player who set those running records over the course of a four-year career--and they valued running backs more. From 1980 to 1999, nine running backs won the award. In the 20 years since, only two.

Great college running back, no doubt. But not better than Taylor and Gordon.

bayareabadger

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #362 on: April 08, 2020, 06:35:55 PM »
Maybe any pass behind the line of scrimmage should be counted as a run.  If it's incomplete, it's a rush for zero yards.

Now that I've made that suggestion, I don't know that I like it.
I mean, some of it is functional. I'm in pass defense on a scramble. I'm not really in coverage on a quick screen. 

It's also interesting because most of it has to be tracked to the satisfaction of whoever is tracking it. 

CWSooner

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #363 on: April 08, 2020, 06:37:10 PM »
Not to venture into forbidden territory or anything, but didn't Alan Ameche score the game winning TD in the greatest NFL game ever played?
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