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Topic: 100 RBs who had lots of carries and didn't stink

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #70 on: March 11, 2020, 12:50:12 PM »
My overall point is that in the case of Thurman Thomas, independent of coming off an injury, if he had carried the ball 300+ times, that 6.4 ypc would have dropped towards his 5.1 career ypc average.  It's plain as day. 

YPC averages tend to vary in a zig-zag, using the career ypc average as the baseline.  YPC tends to zig-zag WITHIN the career arc of a bell curve.  If a player has a high number of carries one season, he'll tend to benefit in a ypc bump the next season with fewer carries. 
(FYI I didn't now that Thomas had a knee problem in 1986. Thanks for that context.)

Ok, I should move it back to attempts per game, because his 1985 season includes bowl stats and 12 games, whereas 1987 doesn't and is only 11 games. 

So in 1985 he carried the ball 27.25 times a game. In 1987 he carried the ball 22.8 times per game. You're making the statement that 4.4 extra carries a game would make a 1.3 ypc difference in his entire average. Adjusting for the length of the season, that's 48 carries.

So 251 carries net 1613 yards to get that 6.4 average. If he had another 48 carries, that's 299 carries. 299 carries at a 5.1 average is 1525 yards.

So if additional carries would bring him anywhere near 5.1 ypc, he'd be averaging -1.8 ypc on those 48 carries. That's absurd and there's no reason to think that he's be losing yardage on additional carries. Of course, you didn't say it would drop TO his career average, you said it would drop towards his career average. 

Let's assume he merely averaged his lowest average season output, 4.1 ypc, on those additional 48 carries. That's reasonable, right? That would put him at 299 carries for 1809 yards, or 6.05 ypc. Nearly a full yard above his career average, so still an enormous increase, but not AS enormous. 

But that follows your logic correctly. His apg went down, and his ypc went up. 

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But that's Thurman Thomas. The Dayne example shows a range of 23.9 attempts per game to 28.1 attempts per game. Dayne's highest single season for attempts per game at 28.1 was also above his historical average. His second-highest number of attempts per game, 26.8 apg was his lowest ypc season. 

In this case if you assume prior to 1999, Dayne was averaging 25.2 apg through three years at 5.74 ypc. His senior season he averaged nearly 3 more attempts per game and his ypc average went UP from 5.74 during his career to 6.03 ypc, or 0.3 ypc. 

It goes against your previous assertion. His apg went up, and his ypc went up. 

Your argument is that if Wisconsin had limited him to 25.2 apg his average would have been higher than 6.03 ypc his senior season. I see absolutely no evidence for that. It's true that his freshman season he only got 25 apg, and he had a 6.5 ypc average. But his sophomore season he only had 23.9 apg, and a 5.5 ypc average.

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I just don't see evidence that ypc and volume are correlated positively or negatively within an individual player. In my mind it's still the player's natural talent, and then a whole bunch of external factors like usage, scheme, blocking, defenses faced, etc. 

847badgerfan

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #71 on: March 11, 2020, 12:54:07 PM »
I too have been watching college football since 1980 or so, and Ricky Williams is the best running back I've seen. :)
Dayne was better. 
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utee94

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #72 on: March 11, 2020, 03:48:59 PM »
Dayne was better.
Not according to OAM's current maths.

847badgerfan

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #73 on: March 11, 2020, 04:13:41 PM »
Who?

I'll never forget the goof trading his entire draft for that kid. Then the first rounder that the goof traded to Washington was later traded to the Bears, who promptly took Cade McClown.

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I hate Ricky Williams.

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MrNubbz

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #74 on: March 11, 2020, 04:42:58 PM »
Why do you hate Ricky Williams,because he liked the Hippy Lettuce?Because of the trade - that was Iron Mike
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rolltidefan

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #75 on: March 11, 2020, 06:08:28 PM »
I too have been watching college football since 1980 or so, and Ricky Williams is the best running back I've seen. :)
for my money, i'll take willis mcgahee or adrian petersen.

Cincydawg

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #76 on: March 11, 2020, 06:20:39 PM »
If you had one game against a great defense and you had a decent OL, which college RB would you pick, healthy, from his best year?

FearlessF

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #77 on: March 11, 2020, 10:34:17 PM »
If you had one game against a great defense and you had a decent OL, which college RB would you pick, healthy, from his best year?
Earl Campbell
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utee94

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #78 on: March 11, 2020, 11:06:46 PM »
Who?

I'll never forget the goof trading his entire draft for that kid. Then the first rounder that the goof traded to Washington was later traded to the Bears, who promptly took Cade McClown.

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I hate Ricky Williams.


Oh yeah?  Well you can just rightly screw off then.  Good day, sir!

utee94

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #79 on: March 11, 2020, 11:06:58 PM »

847badgerfan

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #80 on: March 12, 2020, 08:24:28 AM »
I hated when the Bears picked Curtis Enis, Rashaan Salaam and Cedric Benson (RIP) too. I liked the Matt Forte and Neal Anderson picks. Lots of clunkers in between all of those too.
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fezzador

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #81 on: March 12, 2020, 08:41:38 AM »
word

Earl Campbell was supposedly NFL ready straight out of high school

Cincydawg

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #82 on: March 12, 2020, 08:50:32 AM »
I seem to recall that Earl C. was "the first" of he big powerful backs who also had speed.  He was amazing.

I'd choice Barry S. myself because he could gain yards even with poor blocking.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Top 100 RBs of All-Time
« Reply #83 on: March 12, 2020, 09:06:53 AM »
He also had the most carries of no gain or a loss of yardage.  So if you're not keen on facing 2nd and 10 a lot, you might want to go with someone else.
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