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Topic: The 80% Club

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: The 80% Club
« Reply #112 on: July 24, 2018, 07:32:30 PM »
They should've rejected the Fiesta Bowl bid that year Oregon State curb-stombed them.  They didn't deserve to be anywhere near that game.
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847badgerfan

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Re: The 80% Club
« Reply #113 on: July 24, 2018, 07:51:26 PM »
Quote from: ELA on July 24, 2018, 06:38:48 PM
They turned down the Copper Bowl like 20 years ago.  Not sure if they did it more recently than that.
That ND turned it down enabled UW to accept it. And I went because I was in PHX visiting family.
Dayne went nuts in that game, against the Utes.
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TyphonInc

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Re: The 80% Club
« Reply #114 on: July 24, 2018, 07:54:17 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 24, 2018, 12:00:41 PM
That was a preseason top 5 Michigan team, if you remember.  So the voters were to blame.
It's still the preseason... so ... this ... makes ... this ... a ... preseason Alabama team?
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utee94

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Re: The 80% Club
« Reply #115 on: July 24, 2018, 09:18:11 PM »
Quote from: FearlessF on July 24, 2018, 06:29:00 PM
didn't Notre Dame turn down a bowl a few seasons ago?

I understand they are not in a conference, but I think that would be more incentive to grab the cash, since they don't share
They've got plenty of money.
It's the "not being in a conference" that's key.  They're not obligated to anyone for a structured payout of revenue.  They keep their own books.
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FearlessF

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Re: The 80% Club
« Reply #116 on: July 24, 2018, 10:21:16 PM »
hah, the Horns have plenty of money as well, but they keep grabbing more.  

Hand over fist
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utee94

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Re: The 80% Club
« Reply #117 on: July 25, 2018, 09:25:16 AM »
Well, the fact that ND has refused bowl bids in the "modern era" pretty much makes my point for me.  They're not beholden to a conference with a multi-party post-season contract, so they don't have to accept a bowl bid if they don't want to.  And they obviously have enough money they feel like they can afford to miss a bowl, because they DID make that choice to miss a bowl.  Proof's in the pudding, as they say.

Teams in major conferences don't have that kind of freedom.  The structure of the conference revenue payouts just won't allow it.  They really can't turn down a bowl bid even if they're technically "allowed" to do so.  Additionally, the vast majority of head coaches are unlikely to turn down the extra practice time.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2018, 09:27:58 AM by utee94 »
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: The 80% Club
« Reply #118 on: July 25, 2018, 09:48:13 AM »
Quote from: ELA on July 24, 2018, 07:30:08 PM
Google told me they also preemptively said they wouldn't accept a bowl bid the year they fired Weis.  So they were never offered a bid to technically refuse.

But it was 1996 when they turned down the Copper Bowl bid at 8-3
They turned down the Hawaii bowl when they fired Weis and hired Kelly. 
But it might have technically gone down as a "we aren't going, so don't even invite us" sorta thing. 
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FearlessF

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Re: The 80% Club
« Reply #119 on: July 25, 2018, 09:55:00 AM »
Quote from: utee94 on July 25, 2018, 09:25:16 AM
Well, the fact that ND has refused bowl bids in the "modern era" pretty much makes my point for me.  
well, making points for yourself is easy
I'd guess if Texas with it's wad of cash, wanted to turn down a bowl, could easily throw a few million to the Big 12 to make up for the loss of bowl revenue.  And the head coach would be part of the group that made the decision to turn down the bowl, if not he would be over ruled.
I agree this scenario would NEVER happen, but it's possible
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: The 80% Club
« Reply #120 on: July 25, 2018, 10:30:26 AM »
Quote from: utee94 on July 25, 2018, 09:25:16 AM
Well, the fact that ND has refused bowl bids in the "modern era" pretty much makes my point for me.  They're not beholden to a conference with a multi-party post-season contract, so they don't have to accept a bowl bid if they don't want to.  And they obviously have enough money they feel like they can afford to miss a bowl, because they DID make that choice to miss a bowl.  Proof's in the pudding, as they say.

Teams in major conferences don't have that kind of freedom.  The structure of the conference revenue payouts just won't allow it.  They really can't turn down a bowl bid even if they're technically "allowed" to do so.  Additionally, the vast majority of head coaches are unlikely to turn down the extra practice time.
I believe that this is no longer possible without breaking a contract.  IIRC, ND is now tied into the ACC bowl contracts so declining a bowl would violate a contract.  
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: The 80% Club
« Reply #121 on: July 25, 2018, 10:35:19 AM »
Quote from: FearlessF on July 25, 2018, 09:55:00 AM
well, making points for yourself is easy
I'd guess if Texas with it's wad of cash, wanted to turn down a bowl, could easily throw a few million to the Big 12 to make up for the loss of bowl revenue.  And the head coach would be part of the group that made the decision to turn down the bowl, if not he would be over ruled.
I agree this scenario would NEVER happen, but it's possible
I think the difference, and it relates to my point in my last post, is that Texas is contractually obligated to the B12's Bowl Partners. If they had a crappy season, went 6-6, and turned down the B12's fifth or sixth bowl that would violate the B12's contract with said fifth or sixth bowl.  The bowl could then sue Texas and the B12 and they would probably win.  Also note that the suit wouldn't just be for the payout, instead it would be for the bowl's lost revenue from getting a team with a smaller following.  The Bowl would claim that the loss was many millions.  They wouldn't get everything they asked for, but the breach of contract case would be a slam-dunk.  The only question would be how much Texas had to pay in damages.  
If a team declines a bowl that they aren't obligated to go to then all they lose is the bowl payout but if they decline a bowl that they ARE contractually obligated to go to they give up the payout and an indeterminate amount of damages.  
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: The 80% Club
« Reply #122 on: July 25, 2018, 11:05:53 AM »
Quote from: utee94 on July 25, 2018, 09:25:16 AM
Well, the fact that ND has refused bowl bids in the "modern era" pretty much makes my point for me.  They're not beholden to a conference with a multi-party post-season contract, so they don't have to accept a bowl bid if they don't want to.  And they obviously have enough money they feel like they can afford to miss a bowl, because they DID make that choice to miss a bowl.  Proof's in the pudding, as they say.

Teams in major conferences don't have that kind of freedom.  The structure of the conference revenue payouts just won't allow it.  They really can't turn down a bowl bid even if they're technically "allowed" to do so.  Additionally, the vast majority of head coaches are unlikely to turn down the extra practice time.
Per the bolded statement, my understanding was that bowls--particularly the low-tier bowls--were often money losers for the school. They are required to buy a lot of tickets, and have to eat the cost of any tickets they can't sell. They need to pay airfare for their team, the band, all the associated support staff, etc. They can outlay millions of dollars to go to a bowl, and the amount they actually receive ends up being much less. Particularly if it's a team like ND that nobody is excited about a 6-6 season and probably aren't going to buy a plane ticket to Hawaii to attend a meaningless game after a coach has been fired.
Now, I agree with you that conferences can't really have that. If Purdue had decided to skip the Foster Farms bowl, what would the conference do? "Oh, you want to skip it? Well then you can forfeit your share of all the rest of the conference bowl revenue." So I see that when you have a pooled resource like bowl revenue, which all schools (even those which don't go to bowls) benefit from, they're definitely not going to let you opt out of bowls. The B1G has equal revenue sharing of the BTN money, and they're not going to let you get equal revenue but pick and choose which things you'll contribute to. 
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FearlessF

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Re: The 80% Club
« Reply #123 on: July 25, 2018, 11:16:33 AM »
Quote from: bwarbiany on July 25, 2018, 11:05:53 AM
Per the bolded statement, my understanding was that bowls--particularly the low-tier bowls--were often money losers for the school. They are required to buy a lot of tickets, and have to eat the cost of any tickets they can't sell. They need to pay airfare for their team, the band, all the associated support staff, etc. They can outlay millions of dollars to go to a bowl, and the amount they actually receive ends up being much less. 
it's been accused in the past that some programs take the band and as many folks along to the bowl as possible to make sure there's no money left over to share with the have nots that do not go bowling from the conference
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utee94

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Re: The 80% Club
« Reply #124 on: July 25, 2018, 11:54:19 AM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on July 25, 2018, 10:30:26 AM
I believe that this is no longer possible without breaking a contract.  IIRC, ND is now tied into the ACC bowl contracts so declining a bowl would violate a contract.  
Good point, now that they're tied into the ACC's bowl contracts, they likely forfeited that freedom. I won't claim to know anything about how those contracts are written between them and the ACC.  But it would make sense that they're not allowed to turn down an invitation.
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ELA

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Re: The 80% Club
« Reply #125 on: July 25, 2018, 12:03:46 PM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on July 25, 2018, 10:35:19 AM
I think the difference, and it relates to my point in my last post, is that Texas is contractually obligated to the B12's Bowl Partners. If they had a crappy season, went 6-6, and turned down the B12's fifth or sixth bowl that would violate the B12's contract with said fifth or sixth bowl.  The bowl could then sue Texas and the B12 and they would probably win.  Also note that the suit wouldn't just be for the payout, instead it would be for the bowl's lost revenue from getting a team with a smaller following.  The Bowl would claim that the loss was many millions.  They wouldn't get everything they asked for, but the breach of contract case would be a slam-dunk.  The only question would be how much Texas had to pay in damages.  
If a team declines a bowl that they aren't obligated to go to then all they lose is the bowl payout but if they decline a bowl that they ARE contractually obligated to go to they give up the payout and an indeterminate amount of damages.  
What if the Big XII still had enough bowl eligible teams to fulfill all of their tie-ins?
That seems pretty unlikely, as most conferences are seemingly tie into more than they can fulfill, simply because those bowls would rather have first crack at the Big Ten #10 (or whatever) if by chance they are sitting there, than CUSA #3.  They can go grab a random CUSA team if needed, and from their perspective there's no difference between being guaranteed the #3 team over having to settle for the #6 team once the Big Ten fails to fill all of their slots.
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