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Topic: The 'United' States of America

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #252 on: June 26, 2024, 04:51:10 AM »
I don't think it's really doable, or even clearly definable.  You have to rely on some court to define it and some commission to lay out the districts in the first place, at best.

And it would have zero impact on the Senate or Presidency.

I once saw someone claim Trump only won because of gerrymandering in 2016.
I guess we should just give up on honesty and objectivity then.  
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EastAthens

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #253 on: June 26, 2024, 05:49:03 AM »
I mean, I’m not totally sure how one would do that. Other than some kind of random generator. Any map in theory advantages someone, unless you make it more general, which turns power over to parties, which people somewhat often don’t like (but not always, I suppose).
I agree that some advantage for someone would be inevitable but that is a completely different animal than the current system of politicians choosing their own constituencies. The current system gives is AOC and Marjorie Taylor Greene, batshit crazy writ large.

Cincydawg

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #254 on: June 26, 2024, 07:50:38 AM »
There are plenty of things to dislike out about current system.  I personally would be chary about making large changes that could have unintended consequences, and obviously one can propose all sorts of things here as hypotheticals, fine with me.

I know poll after poll for example shows the voters would prefer a direct popular vote for Presidents.  That doesn't necessarily mean it would be a good idea (or not).  And there is a Compact of the States in progress, sort of, that would make that happen without an Amendment.  

I suspect if Democrats benefitted more often from the EC, they'd be for retaining it, and vice versa.

bayareabadger

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #255 on: June 26, 2024, 08:03:47 AM »
I agree that some advantage for someone would be inevitable but that is a completely different animal than the current system of politicians choosing their own constituencies. The current system gives is AOC and Marjorie Taylor Greene, batshit crazy writ large.
I don’t think either of those people is helped that much by gerrymandering? They’re just candidates from really red or blue areas. 

GopherRock

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #256 on: June 26, 2024, 09:24:34 AM »
I don’t think either of those people is helped that much by gerrymandering? They’re just candidates from really red or blue areas.
It is unlikely that MTG's district is anywhere near that red without gerrymandering.

The problem with suggestions of AI or computer-generated districts is that the programming contains all the biases of the programmer. Garbage in, garbage out.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #257 on: June 26, 2024, 09:32:50 AM »
The question is how you do it...

Let's say a state is reliably 53% R, 45% D, 2% "other". 

Do you?


  • Draw every district to try to contain roughly 53% R, 45% D, 2% other? This will likely result in ONLY sending R people to Congress
  • Draw the districts to try to give the state roughly 53-54% R congresscritters, and 45-46% D congresscritters?
  • Draw the districts "smartly" but without deliberate carveouts to help the parties and let the chips fall where they may? And who defines "smartly", and how?

Everyone talks about how easy it would be to end gerrymandering, but it's actually a quite complicated problem. 


847badgerfan

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #258 on: June 26, 2024, 09:42:29 AM »
The question is how you do it...

What's the problem?


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Cincydawg

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #259 on: June 26, 2024, 09:44:44 AM »
It is unlikely that MTG's district is anywhere near that red without gerrymandering.


She represents the 14th.  I think it pretty obvious it isn't gerrymandered.  One could argue about 8 and 4 and 13.  One aspect of gerrymandering in the south is it usually creates a district likely to have a black representative.  District 5, which is my district, has a black representative, but it isn't obviously "fixed" for that.

I know some folks have attempted to draw maps using computers and an algorithm, and that COULD work, but would produce some wonky results on occasion.


847badgerfan

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #260 on: June 26, 2024, 09:58:07 AM »
Florida isn't bad at all. Pretty square boxes in general. 20 is f'd up though. Not sure what's up with the one.

I'm in the 19th (barely) and we have a black congressman. I really like him too.

He stretches from us all the way down to Naples.

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bayareabadger

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #261 on: June 26, 2024, 10:54:48 AM »
Florida isn't bad at all. Pretty square boxes in general. 20 is f'd up though. Not sure what's up with the one.

I'm in the 19th (barely) and we have a black congressman. I really like him too.

He stretches from us all the way down to Naples.


You mean the little extra tentacles off 20?

Cincydawg

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #262 on: June 26, 2024, 11:00:59 AM »
Of all our problems, I view gerrymandering as well down the list.  My preference would be to have boundaries set by some commission and be done with it.

847badgerfan

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #263 on: June 26, 2024, 11:51:16 AM »
You mean the little extra tentacles off 20?
Yeah. That's a weird one to me.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #264 on: June 26, 2024, 05:33:53 PM »
20 is basically empty w/o the tentacles.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

FearlessF

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #265 on: June 26, 2024, 10:21:10 PM »
that makes it OK to have tentacles?

sweet
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