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Topic: The 'United' States of America

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Cincydawg

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #196 on: June 25, 2024, 12:39:41 PM »
I'm fine with such proposals so long as they go nowhere, which all of them do of course.


847badgerfan

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #197 on: June 25, 2024, 01:00:15 PM »
Our system is the worst. You know, except for all the others :57:

Our system is generally controlled by the big cities on the coasts, which have the population. And such cities like Chicago.

Duh.

Of course, some people don't like it. Most of those don't live in the big cities, but those who do, REALLY don't like it.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #198 on: June 25, 2024, 01:05:44 PM »
I'm glad I live in a Big City so I can exert all that control at will.

If my wife lets me.

FearlessF

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #199 on: June 25, 2024, 01:36:09 PM »
I'm happy to live in a town of 300 on a deadend street

I have no political influence, but then maybe that's why I don't bother myself with politics much
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #200 on: June 25, 2024, 02:30:34 PM »
As somebody pointed out, we (USA) did not invent slavery.  We inherited it.  And some chose to get rid of it willingly.  You used slavery and women's voting rights as a reason to go with some alternate government structure. NO I didn't, I used those as non-examples of your suggestion that our system has worked out well.

If you bring up things that happened over a century ago, why is it bizarre that I also make a point about things that happened well in the past? 

I try, but fail at making my point clear.  So I'll try to cut to the chase. 

The current government system we have killed slavery over 150 years ago.  We did not start it, we inherited it. 

So, did it not work? And how would your system work better? 

There would still be areas/counties that had slavery perhaps 20-30 years after 1865.  Sources are scarce, but as far as I can tell the slavery system of the 1800's existed well up into the 20th century in some places. 
1/4 to 1/3 of households had slaves in the north, leading up to the Civil War.  Does inheriting slavery and continuing to do it a feather in someone's cap?  I'm still mystified by this.

Now you're saying our gov't system killed slavery 150 years ago?  So the plan was to break in half and have a Civil War for 4 years?  That's a helluva plan!

“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #201 on: June 25, 2024, 02:31:20 PM »
Slavery is a confusing topic.

Slaves were offered up to Europeans by their own people.

Should the Europeans have bought? Of course, we now say no. At the time the slaves were looked upon as not quite human, but capable of manual labor that wealthier Europeans didn't want to do. So, they bought.

I always come back to the fact that slaves were offered and sold by their own, and it became a business from which a few privileged Africans became very wealthy.

Not too many people think about this stuff. I do think about it because today "I'm" being blamed.

I point my finger to Africa and say "Look over there for reparations. They are the ones who sold your distant ancestors."
Do you ever wonder WHY Africans sold their brethren?  Or is that too deep?
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #202 on: June 25, 2024, 02:34:16 PM »
Not really.  I am just always curious as to why some people think the system we have is so bad.  I mean, really, is it really that bad here?  Turn off the TV, ignore the CNN/Fox News bullshit, think about all the good things in your life.  I think we have it really good. 

I was riding with a friend of mine from Nicaragua, we drove past the voting/polling place.  He turned to me and said, in broken English, "In Nicaragua, we no vote". 
I don't think our system is "so bad."  I'm just sharing an idea that would ostracize and/or anger fewer people.  Just because something can be improved doesn't mean it's BAD.  

And on the other side of the coin you're flipping, yes, we do have it really good....say it with me now, it doesn't mean we can't have it better.

We would still have states, but crooked-ass lawmakers in a faraway capital wouldn't have such influence on your day-to-day life.  Your crooked-ass neighbor 2 streets over, would. :)
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #203 on: June 25, 2024, 02:35:09 PM »
Do you ever wonder WHY Africans sold their brethren?  Or is that too deep?
Well, to start with, they usually were not their "brethern".  And of course it was a traditional practice among nearly all human cultures for thousands of years.


Cincydawg

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #204 on: June 25, 2024, 02:38:08 PM »
1/4 to 1/3 of households had slaves in the north, leading up to the Civil War. 
From where did you get this statistic?


OrangeAfroMan

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #205 on: June 25, 2024, 02:39:06 PM »
Well, to start with, they usually were not their "brethern".  And of course it was a traditional practice among nearly all human cultures for thousands of years.

I was thinking it had to do with people with guns vs people without guns.  
But I'm probably wrong.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #206 on: June 25, 2024, 02:42:50 PM »
CNN - Evidence of Africans' part in slavery - Oct. 20, 1995
CNN - Evidence of Africans' part in slavery - Oct. 20, 1995

The Europeans provided an expanded market, but slavery was common in Africa before that (and everywhere else in the world, pretty much).  Being SOLD is different from being TAKEN, which is what would have happened if the side with GUNS simply TOOK, instead of "paid" for the slaves.

This is pretty commonly understood history.

Cincydawg

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #207 on: June 25, 2024, 02:45:29 PM »
A Journey in Chains | African | Immigration and Relocation in U.S. History | Classroom Materials at the Library of Congress | Library of Congress


This is a pretty good reliable summary.

While Europeans owned and operated the slave ships, the work of kidnapping new victims was generally left to West Africans. Bands of slavers would roam the African countryside, preying on villagers who let their guard down.
Olaudah Equiano was abducted when he was 8 years old.
Quote
One day, when all our people were gone out to their works as usual, and only I and my dear sister were left to mind the house, two men and a woman got over our walls and in a moment seized us both, and, without giving us time to cry out, or make resistance, they stopped our mouths, and ran off with us into the nearest wood. Here they tied our hands, and continued to carry us as far as they could, till night came on, when we reached a small house where the robbers halted for refreshment, and spent the night. We were then unbound, but were unable to take any food; and, being quite overpowered by fatigue and grief, our only relief was some sleep.
It sometimes took several months to transport captives to the coast, and they often were sold and resold to several new owners along the way. Once they reached the coast, some captives were taken to slave forts or compounds, where they waited for a slave vessel to arrive. Many of these fortresses still stand on the coasts of Africa, at places like Ilmina and Goree Island, as ruined monuments to the cruel economy of years past.
Once a ship was ready, the Africans were handed over to their new captors, Europeans and Americans, who would take them on their journey to the Americas.



OrangeAfroMan

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #208 on: June 25, 2024, 02:48:36 PM »
If you buy humans instead of stealing/slaughtering them all, you sleep better at night.
If you buy humans instead of stealing/slaughtering them all, you sleep better at night?
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: The 'United' States of America
« Reply #209 on: June 25, 2024, 02:49:18 PM »
Anyway, the topic of this thread has nothing to do with slavery.  I brought it up in discussing a tangent by someone else.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

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