header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: Texas and OU to where?!?!

 (Read 23824 times)

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71566
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #42 on: July 22, 2021, 02:54:45 PM »
UVA-UNC would be a marquis add for any conference, and would also mean the demise of the ACC.

Both are in solid population and growth states.  That said ....   


betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12203
  • Liked:
Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2021, 03:02:59 PM »
UVA-UNC would be a marquis add for any conference, and would also mean the demise of the ACC.

Both are in solid population and growth states.  That said .... 
I think the drop to four power conferences has been something that we've all been thinking was a possibility. The question was whether it would be the B12 or the ACC. PAC is safe due to geo and B1G and SEC were safe due to strength. 

In recent years it has increasingly looked to be the B12 because they were already down to 10 teams, and didn't have any that they could realistically add and move the needle. 

That meant that the B12 was by definition was unstable. Nobody would leave the other power conferences to join them--no benefit.

So the only way the ACC could be in trouble is if the B1G or the SEC managed to rip away 2 teams each from the ACC (obviously the marquee teams) and then some of the remainder might defect to the B12. 

If there is any truth to this rumor, the B12 is dead and the B1G and the ACC just get to fight over which schools we can get to round each out to 16. 

MaximumSam

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 13098
  • Liked:
Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2021, 03:08:42 PM »
I'm skeptical the consolidation would end there. The B1G, if they wanted to be smart, should go after USC and ND. Otherwise they might be on the way to breaking up.

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71566
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #45 on: July 22, 2021, 03:13:26 PM »
Would OU leave without the other OSU?

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25259
  • Liked:
Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #46 on: July 22, 2021, 03:21:10 PM »
That they are considered, but some, rivalries, doesn't make them so.  UGA-Auburn has deep history, UGA-Florida does not, but the latter is more important today.

Tenn-Bama is the reason they play every year, and it's no a rivalry today but once was.  Rivalries change over time of course, and these could go away with some lamentation by old guys.  When I was a kid, UGA's biggest rival was Tech, end of story, and now I'd be happy not to play them again at all.

Better to play a decent team like Eastern Michigan.
What about UM/OSU? Rivalry still? 
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37549
  • Liked:
Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2021, 03:25:24 PM »
Iowa State doesn't pull 50% in the state, but it's significant.  maybe 40% at least 35
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

medinabuckeye1

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 8906
  • Liked:
Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2021, 03:26:02 PM »
The B1G doesn't need to expand within its footprint, exactly.

Don't need Pitt, Cuse, ISU or KSU. Kansas might be worthwhile for basketball. As much as I hate to say it, Notre Dame would be good if we can sell them on the B1G being a better landing spot than the ACC.

The best option is also outside the footprint, and to try to pry UVA/UNC out of the ACC. But I don't know that they'll try to leave unless the writing is on the wall that the ACC is getting killed, and I don't think the writing would be on the wall that the ACC is getting killed without UVA and UNC jumping ship.

Kansas and Syracuse wouldn't be horrible, though. Kansas shores up our basketball situation and Syracuse isn't all that bad of a fit to add with Rutgers and Maryland out East... But I worry it would be seen as a desperation add.
I agree with all of this except ND.  

Notre Dame:
I think that Notre Dame would have been a great addition years ago when the league looked at them but not today.  My perception is that their fandom is slowly shrinking as the country as a whole becomes less religious and the religious portion becomes less Christian.  When my dad was a kid the big religious divide in America was between Catholics and Protestant's.  My dad's catholic friends had to get "permission" from their priest to attend friends' weddings in protestant churches.  My point is that the catholic/protestant divide was serious business.  Catholics saw Protestants as heathen non-Christians while protestants saw Catholics as Papal worshipping idolaters.  Meanwhile, back then, the entire national population of atheists, Jews, and Muslims would probably have fit in one football stadium.  

Today I think that most Catholics and Protestants see each other as sharing a religion just with slightly different customs and the bigger divide is between Christians and everyone else.  That, I think, makes Catholics less predisposed to be fans of Notre Dame.  

Secondly, Notre Dame's academics simply are not up to B1G standards.  Notre Dame fans usually laugh when they hear me say that because Notre Dame's undergrad ranking is very good.  Per USNR they are #19 which would be second among B1G athletic members behind only Northwestern and just ahead of Michigan (#24).  However, it is also behind Chicago (#6) and John's Hopkins (#9).  

The more important issue academically is research.  This is slightly dated but here is a list of Research spending by B1G (and quasi B1G) Universities:
  • #1 Johns Hopkins $2.6B
  • #2 Michigan $1.5B
  • #6 Wisconsin $1.2B
  • #17 Minnesota $922M
  • #22 Ohio State $864M
  • #23 Penn State $855M
  • #29 Northwestern $752M
  • #32 Michigan State $695M
  • #33 Rutgers $682M
  • #36 Illinois $642M
  • #37 Purdue $623M
  • #43 Maryland $549M
  • #45 Indiana $540M
  • #49 Iowa $494M
  • #55 Chicago $433M
  • #77 Nebraska $302M

Notre Dame is #101 at $213M.  

Highly ranked Research Universities that might be plausible additions:
  • #8 Dook, $1.1B
  • #11 UNC, $1.1B
  • #16 Pitt, $940M (I still don't think we'd add them for athletic and footprint reasons but at least they would be a good add academically.  
  • #24 GaTech, $804M (Probably too far away geographically but great academics and in the fast-growing ATL media market).  
  • #46 VaTech, $522M (Good athletic fit, decent geographic fit, good academic fit).  
  • #47 NCST, $500M
  • #51 UVA, $470M


The top two there are Dook and UNC but I think we'd be looking to add two states to the footprint not two schools from one state.  UNC is a much better addition than Dook because they are more similar to our existing schools (Mostly State Flagship Universities) and while Dook has arguably better Basketball, the rest of UNC's athletic programs would run rings around Dook's.  

Thus I think the logical additions are UNC and one of UVA/VaTech.  Both NC and VA are populous (#9 and #12 respectively) and fast growing states.  

MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 17157
  • Liked:
Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #49 on: July 22, 2021, 03:45:43 PM »
Notre Dame:
I think that Notre Dame would have been a great addition years ago when the league looked at them but not today.  My perception is that their fandom is slowly shrinking as the country as a whole becomes less religious and the religious portion becomes less Christian.  When my dad was a kid the big religious divide in America was between Catholics and Protestant's.  My dad's catholic friends had to get "permission" from their priest to attend friends' weddings in protestant churches.  My point is that the catholic/protestant divide was serious business.  Catholics saw Protestants as heathen non-Christians while protestants saw Catholics as Papal worshipping idolaters.  
I never saw any of that,I just wanted to see someone in either isle recreate the water/wine thingee. Sad to say neither could pull it off so I learned all of  my social graces and took direction from the football coaches
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25259
  • Liked:
Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #50 on: July 22, 2021, 03:47:48 PM »
It's gone entirely, or no longer a B1G requirement?  I know Nebbie lost that status for some bookkeeping reason.
Correct.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18863
  • Liked:
Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #51 on: July 22, 2021, 04:01:43 PM »
The programs that should be most worried are Iowa St, Baylor, and Kansas St.
I doubt anyone has spent more time than I have actually sitting down and fleshing this kind of thing out.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

longhorn320

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 9332
  • Liked:
Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2021, 04:03:09 PM »
Would OU leave without the other OSU?
Thats the main reason Im skeptical of this
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

Brutus Buckeye

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 11239
  • Liked:
Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2021, 04:06:18 PM »
Rather stand pat than add a bunch of scrub teams like Virginia, UNC, Kansas, Iowa St, etc.
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71566
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2021, 05:20:20 PM »
What about UM/OSU? Rivalry still?
I think it still is The Game because of the long history and relative competitiveness even of late.  You probably noticed theh Bama-Vol scores of late.  I think the Vols were hanging in there one game and their QB fumbled on the Bama goal line for a "pickup six".  Guarantano.

Michigan has the talent to stay somewhere in reach of Ohio State.

Did I just create a term?  Scoop and score?

MaximumSam

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 13098
  • Liked:

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.