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Topic: Teams from the 1950s

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CWSooner

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Re: Teams from the 1950s
« Reply #56 on: April 02, 2020, 10:28:13 AM »

1959-Notre Dame (Independent)
9/26vs.North Carolina (5-5)W288
10/3@Purdue (5-2-2)L728
10/10@California (2-8)W286
10/17@Michigan State (5-4)L019
10/24vs.Northwestern (6-3)L2430
10/31vs.Navy (5-4-1)W2522
11/7vs.Georgia Tech (6-5)L1014
11/14@Pittsburgh (6-4)L1328
11/21@Iowa (5-4)W2019
11/28vs.Southern California (8-2)W166
 
5-5-0
 171180

1959-Florida (SEC)
9/18@*Tulane (3-6-1)W300
9/26vs.*Mississippi State (2-7)W1413
10/3vs.Virginia (0-10)W5510
10/10@Rice (1-7-2)T1313
10/17@*Vanderbilt (5-3-2)L613
10/24vs.*Louisiana State (9-2)L09
10/31@*Auburn (7-3)L06
11/7vs.*Georgia (10-1)L1021@ Jacksonville, FL
11/21vs.Florida State (4-6)W188
11/28vs.Miami (Florida) (6-4)W2314@ Jacksonville, FL
 
5-4-1
 169107


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FearlessF

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Re: Teams from the 1950s
« Reply #57 on: April 02, 2020, 05:45:36 PM »
1959 Florida

most impressive win, over a 6-5 team
least impressive loss, a tie with a 1-7-2 team

had to be 25 teams with better resumes 
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Cincydawg

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Re: Teams from the 1950s
« Reply #58 on: April 02, 2020, 06:05:14 PM »
This is he final 1958 AP poll (prebowl):

1) Louisiana State 11-0
2) Iowa 8-1-1
3) Army 8-0-1
4) Auburn 9-0-1
5) Oklahoma 10-1
6) Air Force 9-0-2
7) Wisconsin 7-1-1
8) Ohio State 6-1-2

9) Syracuse 8-2
10) Texas Christian 8-2-1
11) Mississippi 9-2
12) Clemson 8-3
13) Purdue 6-1-2
14) Florida 6-4-1
15) South Carolina 7-3
16) California 7-4
17) Notre Dame 6-4
18) Southern Methodist 6-4
19) Oklahoma State 8-3
20) Rutgers 8-1


I guess Rutgers didn't play anyone.  You'd think South Carolina and OkSU might be ranked ahead of UF.  I don't know who is in "ORVs".

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Teams from the 1950s
« Reply #59 on: April 03, 2020, 09:39:11 AM »
Top-25 by winning percentage for the decade:

  • .89524 Oklahoma 93-10-2
  • .79348 Miami, OH 72-18-2
  • .77830 Ole Miss 80-21-5
  • .76630 MSU 70-21-1
  • .75000 Princeton 67-22-1
  • .74020 ASU 74-25-3
  • .73874 GaTech 79-26-6
  • .73762 Wyoming 72-24-5
  • .72872 CentMI 68-25-1
  • .72596 SoMiss 75-28-1
  • .71649 UCLA 68-26-3
  • .71196 tOSU 63-24-5
  • .69159 Tenn 72-31-4
  • .68085 PSU 62-28-4
  • .67895 LaTech 62-28-5
  • .67822 Maryland 67-31-3
  • .67742 Cuse 62-29-2
  • .67222 Army 58-27-5
  • .66832 Cincy 64-30-7
  • .66667 NotreDame 64-31-4
  • .65842 Clemson 64-32-5
  • .65761 Wisconsin 57-28-7
  • .65000 Kent 57-30-3
  • .64356 Colorado 62-33-6
  • .64216 Dook 62-33-7


Some conspicuous absences from the top-25:
  • #32 Texas .625, 64-38-2
  • #36 USC .60784, 60-38-4
  • #40 Michigan .58791, 52-36-3
  • #67 Bama .50926, 50-48-10
  • #108 Nebraska .40500, 39-58-3


FearlessF

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Re: Teams from the 1950s
« Reply #60 on: April 03, 2020, 12:08:38 PM »
40's and 50's were the Husker's two toughest decades

don't fret, the 60's are up next and the arrival of the BobFather!!!
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: Teams from the 1950s
« Reply #61 on: April 03, 2020, 03:54:47 PM »
40's and 50's were the Husker's two toughest decades

don't fret, the 60's are up next and the arrival of the BobFather!!!
It is interesting to me that the 1950's were a rough decade for nearly all of the schools that we consider "helmet" schools today.  Looking at the list, the helmets (correct me if I miss any or include too many):
  • #1 Oklahoma, .89524
  • #12 Ohio State, .71196
  • #13 Tennessee, .69159
  • #14 Penn State, .68085
  • #20 Notre Dame, .66667
  • #32 Texas, .62500
  • #36 USC, .60784
  • #40 Michigan, .58791
  • #67 Alabama, .50926
  • #108 Nebraska, .40500

Mandel's list also includes Clemson (recent addition), the three Florida Schools, and LSU while it does not include Nebraska (recent deletion).  

By way of comparison, here are those 10 schools in the 1960's:
  • #1 Alabama, .83636
  • #2 Texas, .81019
  • #5 Ohio State, .75824
  • #8 USC, .74286
  • #10 Penn State, .73810
  • #15 Nebraska, .71226
  • #23 Tennessee, .66667
  • #29 Notre Dame, .64000
  • #43 Oklahoma, .60577
  • #52 Michigan, .57732

Here they are in the 1970's:
  • #1 Oklahoma, .87712
  • #2 Alabama, .86250
  • #3 Michigan, .84783
  • #4 Nebraska, .81967
  • #5 Penn State, .81356
  • #6 Ohio State, .81140
  • #7 Notre Dame, .80531
  • #8 USC, .80525
  • #9 Texas, .76957
  • #27 Tennessee, .65385


Cincydawg

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Re: Teams from the 1950s
« Reply #62 on: April 03, 2020, 04:14:51 PM »
UGA is not in that group of course but it was a rough decade for them as well except for 1959.

It does look like the strong programs largely are started to become obvious with some exceptions.  Georgia Tech was a power back then, they would have been a helmet school.

FearlessF

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Re: Teams from the 1950s
« Reply #63 on: April 03, 2020, 08:21:34 PM »
supports our assumption that that the helmets were formed in the 70s for the most part
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CWSooner

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Re: Teams from the 1950s
« Reply #64 on: April 04, 2020, 02:40:32 PM »
Top-25 by winning percentage for the decade:

  • .89524 Oklahoma 93-10-2
  • .79348 Miami, OH 72-18-2
  • .77830 Ole Miss 80-21-5
  • .76630 MSU 70-21-1
  • .75000 Princeton 67-22-1
  • .74020 ASU 74-25-3
  • .73874 GaTech 79-26-6
  • .73762 Wyoming 72-24-5
  • .72872 CentMI 68-25-1
  • .72596 SoMiss 75-28-1
  • .71649 UCLA 68-26-3
  • .71196 tOSU 63-24-5
  • .69159 Tenn 72-31-4
  • .68085 PSU 62-28-4
  • .67895 LaTech 62-28-5
  • .67822 Maryland 67-31-3
  • .67742 Cuse 62-29-2
  • .67222 Army 58-27-5
  • .66832 Cincy 64-30-7
  • .66667 NotreDame 64-31-4
  • .65842 Clemson 64-32-5
  • .65761 Wisconsin 57-28-7
  • .65000 Kent 57-30-3
  • .64356 Colorado 62-33-6
  • .64216 Dook 62-33-7


Some conspicuous absences from the top-25:
  • #32 Texas .625, 64-38-2
  • #36 USC .60784, 60-38-4
  • #40 Michigan .58791, 52-36-3
  • #67 Bama .50926, 50-48-10
  • #108 Nebraska .40500, 39-58-3
Has there ever been a decade with one team so dominant as was the case in the '50s?

I suspect that there have been some teams with better decades than Oklahoma in the '50s, but there were other teams having really good stretches at the same time.  Nobody else in the '50s is within 10 percentage points of Oklahoma.  Granted, the Big Seven wasn't the toughest conference in all the land.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Teams from the 1950s
« Reply #65 on: April 04, 2020, 04:23:21 PM »
I think you'd have to go back to maybe 1900 to see something comparable.  Maybe.

https://cfbalmanac.com/michigan-1900-1909-football-schedules-and-scores/

CWSooner

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Re: Teams from the 1950s
« Reply #66 on: April 04, 2020, 05:34:02 PM »
I think you'd have to go back to maybe 1900 to see something comparable.  Maybe.

https://cfbalmanac.com/michigan-1900-1909-football-schedules-and-scores/
Well, the data is there, but who wants to do all the arithmetic?
There used to be a website called College Football Data Warehouse and one of its features was ranking teams by decade and by 25-year periods.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Teams from the 1950s
« Reply #67 on: April 04, 2020, 05:55:56 PM »
Yeah, I don't think it's worth crunching numbers, I just think you'd have to look at 1900 to see another team possibly that dominant, maybe, and then it doesn't matter that much.

I also don't think it can happen these days.  We seem to have had three dominant programs in the 2010 decade, which is remarkable enough.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Teams from the 1950s
« Reply #68 on: April 04, 2020, 06:07:00 PM »
Has there ever been a decade with one team so dominant as was the case in the '50s?

I suspect that there have been some teams with better decades than Oklahoma in the '50s, but there were other teams having really good stretches at the same time.  Nobody else in the '50s is within 10 percentage points of Oklahoma.  Granted, the Big Seven wasn't the toughest conference in all the land.
This stuff is interesting to me. 

I find it interesting how much Oklahoma bounces around. They were #1 by a mile in the '50's and #1 again in the '70's but in between they were decidedly mediocre in the '60's.

I also find it interesting that the '70's were REALLY good for pretty much all of the Helmet teams.

CWSooner

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Re: Teams from the 1950s
« Reply #69 on: April 04, 2020, 07:50:50 PM »
This stuff is interesting to me.

I find it interesting how much Oklahoma bounces around. They were #1 by a mile in the '50's and #1 again in the '70's but in between they were decidedly mediocre in the '60's.

I also find it interesting that the '70's were REALLY good for pretty much all of the Helmet teams.
It's a little clearer if you take it year by year.
Oklahoma was good out of the blocks post-WWII, and was a team that could have been named national champs (at 11-0) in 1949.
Starting with the 10-1 1948 team, it had its greatest stretch ever going through the '58 (10-1) season.  107-8-2 over that 11-year stretch.  But the Wilkinson magic faded (not just coincidentally as Bud's former player Darrell Royal really got it going in Austin) and Bud finished 7-3, 3-6-1, 5-5, 8-3, 8-2.  That went through the '63 season.  Bud's successor was long-time assistant poor old Gomer Jones, who went 9-11-1 over two years.  The rest of the '60s were "OK," but just that, with the exception of the overachieving '67 team that was 3 missed FGs against Texas in a 9-7 loss from being undefeated and possibly national champs.  Then seasons of 7-4 and 6-4 closed out the '60s.
Then, in 1970, in the bye week before the RRS, OU installed Texas' wishbone offense (only emphasizing more speed and less power) and ended up with a 7-4-1 season and momentum.  Then they ripped off a great decade, with Barry Switzer taking over from Chuck Fairbanks for the '73 season.  11-1, 11-1, 10-0-1, 11-0, 11-1, 9-2-1, 10-2, 11-1, 11-1, with 2 MNCs in there.  (Bama had a lower winning percentage, but won 3 MNCs, over the same period.)  The '80s were a down-up-down decade.  Subpar recruiting led to a 10-2, 7-4-1, 8-4, 8-4 start.  Then, '85 through '87, they went 33-3 with an MNC in '85 and losing to Miami in the '87 MNC game.  But then a decline at the end, 9-3, Switzer getting forced out, and closing out with 7-4 under Gary Gibbs in '89.  The '90s then made the '60s look like a roaring success story.  8-3, 9-3, 5-4-2, 9-3, 6-6, and Gibbs getting fired.  A 5-5-1 season under Howard Smellsofbourbon, and then the worst 3-year span in the program's history under John Blake, 3-8, 4-8, 5-6.  Bob Stoops' first year, at 7-5, closed out the decade.  2000 brought 13-0 and an NC, and another nice run--albeit with disappointing performances in NC games--from that point through the 2019 season.

So, up at the end of the '40s, down at the end of the '50s carrying into the mid-1960s, a one-year spike, then back to mediocrity for the rest of the decade, then a great decade in the '70s, a good decade in the '80s, a lousy decade in the '90s, a great start to the '00s, and a good run since then.
Re your last comment, does the fact that most of the Helmet teams did well in the '70s make it a great decade or a top-heavy one?
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