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Topic: Teams from the 1950s
(Read 8489 times)

FearlessF · « **Reply #14 on:** March 27, 2020, 09:44:35 PM »

1/2
national
championship

Cincydawg · « **Reply #15 on:** March 28, 2020, 08:56:35 AM »

https://tiptop25.com/champ1951.html

Pictured above is Maryland's Hall of Fame quarterback, Jack Scarbath, scoring a touchdown in a 28-13 victory over Tennessee in the Sugar Bowl. Tennessee had finished #1 in the AP poll, so this was the 2nd straight season that the AP poll's "champion" lost its bowl game. In 1950, it had been Oklahoma that won the regular season AP "title" then lost their bowl game. 11-1 Tennessee was the real champion of 1950, as they had beaten 11-1 Kentucky, who was the team that beat 10-1 Oklahoma in the Sugar Bowl. So this season was the AP poll giving Tennessee a "title" to make up for 1950. The AP poll would give Maryland a "title" to make up for this season in 1953, after which, you guessed it, Maryland lost their bowl game. Gee, it's too bad the AP poll couldn't be bothered to give teams titles for the seasons when they actually deserved titles.

The huge Sugar Bowl win this season finished Maryland at 10-0 and dropped Tennessee to 10-1. Tennessee does claim a mythical national championship (MNC) for this season based on winning the major polls, but I do not recognize partial-season MNCs myself. Maryland's real contender for the 1951 crown is 9-0 Michigan State, who finished ranked #2 in the AP poll. Maryland was #3. Of course, it need hardly be said that Maryland would have easily won a post-bowl AP poll after their destruction of #1 Tennessee, who had won all of their games by more than a touchdown prior to the Sugar Bowl.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #16 on:** March 28, 2020, 09:00:53 AM »

THis is his fixed AP poll:

1) Maryland 10-0	+2
2) Tennessee 10-1	-1
3) Michigan State 9-0	-1
4) Illinois 9-0-1	--
5) Georgia Tech 11-0-1	--
6) Princeton 9-0	--
7) Wisconsin 7-1-1	+1
8) Stanford 9-2	-1
9) California 8-2	+3
10) Baylor 8-2-1	-1
11) Texas 7-3	IN
12) Oklahoma 8-2	-2
13) Kentucky 8-4	+2
14) Virginia 8-1	-1
15) San Francisco 9-0	-1
16) UCLA 5-3-1	+1
17) Southern Cal 7-3	IN
18) Washington State 7-3	--
19) Notre Dame 7-2-1	IN
20) Purdue 5-4	IN
21) Ohio State 4-3-2	IN
22) Northwestern 5-4	IN
23) Colorado 7-3	IN
24) Kansas 8-2	IN
25) Texas Christian 6-5	-14

FearlessF · « **Reply #17 on:** March 28, 2020, 09:09:15 AM »

I've always favored the coaches poll over the AP poll

bitter, drunken, sportswriters

Cincydawg · « **Reply #18 on:** March 28, 2020, 09:10:42 AM »

I suspect it most is a "graduate assistant's poll" ... and they usually have no major differences.

FearlessF · « **Reply #19 on:** March 28, 2020, 09:27:56 AM »

oh, the coaches poll has its flaws for sure, but for the most part I've felt less bias and better choice in the subtle differences

Cincydawg · « **Reply #20 on:** March 28, 2020, 10:43:04 AM »

I like this guy's approach, whether I agree in all cases is different of course. The point about why bowls could be ignored is a good one, I don't know where I fall on that. I "think" by 1965 or so, most teams took bowls seriously, maybe earlier than that. Of course, ND didn't play and the B1G only sent their top team to one bowl.

The bowl thing is fabulously bizarre and random and entropically aligned. I remember when the Gator Bowl was the best other than the four majors. Then the Cap One grabbed that spot. The Peach Bowl nearly failed and washed out of course.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #21 on:** March 28, 2020, 10:57:55 AM »

https://tiptop25.com/champ1952.html

Another year with a dispute (in addition to Princeton):

Pictured above is the Michigan State field goal that beat 2-7 Oregon State 17-14 in Portland on the last play of the game. It was the closest call for Michigan State on the way to its 2nd straight 9-0 season and first-ever finish atop the AP poll. They also topped the UPI coaches' poll, leaving 12-0 Georgia Tech #2 in both major polls. However, Georgia Tech finished #1 in the International News Service poll of sportswriters, and they claim their own mythical national championship (MNC) for this season based on that. This was the debut season for the INS poll. It was only around for 6 seasons, as the INS merged with the UPI in 1958.

Here is how all of the organizations listed in the NCAA Records Book see the 1952 mythical national championship (omitting math/computer ratings, which are not generally accepted as MNCs):

9-0 Michigan State: AP Poll, UPI Poll (coaches), CFB Researchers, Helms, National Championship Foundation
12-0 Georgia Tech: INS Poll (sportswriters)

As you can see, Michigan State is an almost unanimous choice, which is odd, because Georgia Tech defeated more rated opponents (in the AP and coaches' polls), and MSU had the aforementioned razor-close win over Oregon State, while no unrated team came within a touchdown of Georgia Tech.

Bowls were competing heavily with each other to secure the best teams at this time, and that pushed team selection earlier and earlier every year. This season, Georgia Tech committed to the Sugar Bowl over the Orange Bowl on November 4th, almost 2 weeks before their season-defining game against Alabama was even played. The Sugar waited on selecting their opponent, presumed to be defending national champion Maryland, who was 7-0 and carrying a 22 game unbeaten streak into a game at 7-0-2 Mississippi on the same day that Georgia Tech played Alabama. But Mississippi upset Maryland 21-14, and thereby secured the Sugar Bowl slot for themselves. So it was an all-SEC Sugar Bowl, Georgia Tech 11-0 and ranked #2, Mississippi 8-0-2 and #7. 80,000 attended, and the game was nationally televised for the first time.

Michigan State defeated their unranked opponents by an average of 39-12, and Georgia Tech defeated theirs by an average of 32-3.

What we have here is a split title, and I think you could rank either team at #1. I would go with Georgia Tech at #1 myself, because they played more ranked teams, and Michigan State had the awful performance at 2-7 Oregon State, while no unranked team came within a touchdown of Tech. MSU's 14-7 win at 4-3-2 Purdue was also worse than any Georgia Tech performance. On the other hand, Michigan State's 21-3 win over #3 Notre Dame outshines all of Georgia Tech's results enough that MSU at #1 is logically viable.

MSU's 48-7 win over #14 Syracuse and 34-7 rout of #16 Penn State were also very impressive, but Georgia Tech beat #8 Alabama, Alabama beat Syracuse 61-6 in the Orange Bowl, and Syracuse beat PSU 25-7, so I don't see those MSU routs giving them an advantage over Georgia Tech.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #22 on:** March 28, 2020, 11:34:54 AM »

http://www.tiptop25.com/champ1953.html

Pictured above is #4 Oklahoma scoring the touchdown that beat #1 Maryland 7-0 in the Orange Bowl. This was the 3rd time in 4 seasons that the AP poll's #1 team lost its bowl game. That result left Maryland 10-1, and it left 9-0-1 Notre Dame (ranked #2) as the actual mythical national champion (MNC) of 1953, as they had won 28-21 at 9-1-1 Oklahoma in their season opener.

Here is how all of the organizations listed in the NCAA Records Book see the 1953 mythical national championship (omitting math/computer ratings, which are not generally accepted as MNCs):

10-1 Maryland: AP Poll, UPI Poll (coaches), INS Poll (sportswriters)
9-0-1 Notre Dame: Helms, National Championship Foundation
9-1-1 Oklahoma: CFB Researchers

The major poll selections of Maryland are understandable, as those polls didn't count bowl games, and Maryland was 10-0 when they voted (though Maryland had not played a single team that was rated in the final AP poll). The selection of Oklahoma by the College Football Researchers Association, on the other hand, is a real head-scratcher, given that Notre Dame had a better record and defeated Oklahoma in Norman. And in addition to the head-to-head result, Notre Dame's tie came to 5-3-1 Iowa, rated #9, while Oklahoma's tie came to 3-5-1 Pittsburgh, a team Notre Dame beat 23-14 the next week. Oklahoma had 4 close wins (touchdown or less), and Notre Dame had 1. The fact is, Oklahoma is a simply awful selection as 1953 MNC, an embarrassment for the CFRA.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #23 on:** March 28, 2020, 11:37:40 AM »

Notre Dame next won 37-7 at 2-7 Purdue, then they had to rally from a 14-0 deficit to beat 3-5-1 Pittsburgh 23-14 at home (Johnny Lattner pictured carrying the ball in that game above). The next game was a big one, as they were facing 4-0-1 Georgia Tech, who had not lost a game since 1950, a 31 game unbeaten streak. Notre Dame was ranked #1, Georgia Tech #4. The game was supposed to have been played in Atlanta, but Notre Dame had some black players, and they would not have been allowed to play in Atlanta. Georgia Tech either had to give up their home game or cancel the series entirely, and they chose to play in South Bend.

With his team leading 7-0 at halftime, Frank Leahy suddenly collapsed in the locker room, and was taken to the hospital. The team feared it was a heart attack, and legend says a priest delivered the last rites. It was a pancreatic attack, which may have seemed like good news at first, but at the end of the season, Leahy would retire, citing health concerns and his doctor's orders. Notre Dame came out of the locker room in a bit of shock, and Georgia Tech marched to a tying touchdown. But Notre Dame came roaring back in the same quarter, quarterback Ralph Guglielmi hitting halfback Joe Heap for a touchdown pass, and tackle Art Hunter recovering a bad snap in Georgia Tech's end zone, giving the Irish a commanding 21-7 lead. Both teams scored in the 4th quarter, making the final score 27-14. Georgia Tech went on to finish 9-2-1, and I have them ranked #6 for 1953.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #24 on:** March 28, 2020, 11:41:58 AM »

Notre Dame outgained Iowa 358 yards to 198, but turnovers and mistakes (such as dropping an easy touchdown pass) were costly for the Irish, and they had to resort to faking injuries to stop the clock on both of their touchdown drives to eke out a 14-14 tie. Iowa intercepted a 1st quarter pass and then marched 72 yards to lead 7-0. Halfback Johnny Lattner returned a punt 41 yards very late in the first half, but the play appeared to be for naught when quarterback Ralph Guglielmi was sacked at the Iowa 12 yard line, the clock draining away and Notre Dame out of time-outs. But tackle "Fainting" Frank Varrichione came to the rescue, collapsing to the turf on his way back to the huddle and screaming in "pain" to get an injury time-out (pictured below). Guglielmi hit a tying touchdown pass to end Dan Shannon on the next play.

FearlessF · « **Reply #25 on:** March 28, 2020, 11:43:58 AM »

cheaters

@utee94 would not approve!

utee94 · « **Reply #26 on:** March 28, 2020, 11:45:54 AM »

Quote from: FearlessF on March 28, 2020, 11:43:58 AM

cheaters

@utee94 would not approve!

Soccer flopping pansies.

CWSooner · « **Reply #27 on:** March 28, 2020, 11:56:26 AM »

Quote

Pictured above is the Michigan State field goal that beat 2-7 Oregon State 17-14 in Portland on the last play of the game. It was the closest call for Michigan State on the way to its 2nd straight 9-0 season and first-ever finish atop the AP poll. They also topped the UPI coaches' poll, leaving 12-0 Georgia Tech #2 in both major polls. However, Georgia Tech finished #1 in the International News Service poll of sportswriters, and they claim their own mythical national championship (MNC) for this season based on that. This was the debut season for the INS poll. It was only around for 6 seasons, as the INS merged with the UPI in 1958.

I think I'm correcting the historical record here. I believe that UPI was the result of a merger of what was then the UP with the INS.

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Topic: Teams from the 1950s

FearlessF

Re: Teams from the 1950s

Cincydawg

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Cincydawg

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FearlessF

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FearlessF

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utee94

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CWSooner

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