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Topic: Teams from the 1930s

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FearlessF

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Re: Teams from the 1930s
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2020, 09:53:12 AM »
I find it interesting that the running backs weighed about the same as the OLs, around 200 pounds.  I think the OLs were 230 or so typically when I was in school 1970s era.

It would be interesting to see a chart of the average weight of OLs in P5 by year (or decade).  I'd guess it's about 290 today, maybe 300.

UGA was 328 last season, average.  How much did the Fridge weight?  I think around 300 and he was considered to be a monster.
just a guess, no research done, but Boyd Eply's weight training and conditioning program may have caused a jump in weight of players
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Cincydawg

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Re: Teams from the 1930s
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2020, 10:00:39 AM »
https://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-offensive-lineman-are-big-2011-10#1920s-pierre-garon-wr-washington-redskins-1

In the 1920s, the average offensive lineman was the size of today's smaller wide receivers, 6-foot-0, 211 pounds.

In the 1950s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as a quarterback today, 6-foot-2, 234 pounds.

In the 1960s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's linebackers, 6-foot-3, 251 pounds.

In the 1970s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's outside linebackers, 6-foot-3, 255 pounds.

In the 1980s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's defensive ends, 6-foot-4, 272 pounds.

In the 1990s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's bigger defensive ends, 6-foot-4, 300 pounds.

In the 2000s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's centers, 6-foot-4, 313 pounds.

In 2015, the Bryan Bulaga is the average offensive lineman at 6-foot-5, 312 pounds.


FearlessF

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Re: Teams from the 1930s
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2020, 10:05:36 AM »
pretty good bump in the 80s perhaps due to roids and weight training

a better bump in the 90s

starting to level off today?
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FearlessF

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Re: Teams from the 1930s
« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2020, 06:53:11 PM »
1930: Coach Dana X. Bible says Prohibition has been a benefit to colleges. Meanwhile, his 1930 team's first intrasquad games of spring are held.

https://nebnewspapers.unl.edu/lccn/sn96080312/1930-03-16/ed-1/seq-1/

https://nebnewspapers.unl.edu/lccn/sn96080312/1930-03-16/ed-1/seq-4/
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CWSooner

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Re: Teams from the 1930s
« Reply #32 on: March 15, 2020, 11:07:17 PM »
That is sort of something lost to the ages, with less recruits falling through the cracks, and coaches not simply rewarding tenure, the random great team.  I feel like you used to get the random 1974 Orange Bowl Kansas Jayhawks, or whatever, and then discover they were awful before and after that.

Trying to think of recent examples, and I'm not coming up with any.  I know I just fake used them, but maybe those 2007 Kansas and Missouri teams?  I think Wake Forest won an out of the blue ACC title in there.  You might get a short elite burst like MSU from 2013-2015, or Washington.  But I can't think of any one off great teams recently.  If Baylor could have figured out Oklahoma, maybe they would have fit?  If Kansas State had avoided the one pitfall and played in the BCS champion ship in 2011 or 2012?
You almost accidentally hit on Kansas.  KU did not play in the 1974 (season) Orange Bowl, Notre Dame and Alabama did.
But Kansas did play in the 1968 (season) Orange Bowl, losing 15-14 to Penn State.
And Missouri played Penn State in the 1969 (season) Orange Bowl, losing 10-3.
Nebraska and/or Oklahoma would then appear in 16 of the next 19 Orange Bowls, with both appearing in after the 1978 season.
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FearlessF

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Re: Teams from the 1930s
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2020, 10:55:00 AM »
backpedaling from 1930 to 1918 - thought this was timely................

 Running a college football program during a major war is a challenge enough. Calls to duty send rosters into constant flux. Sports tend to slip several notches down society’s list of priorities.

Toss in the horrific Spanish flu pandemic and it’s a wonder any games were played at all in 1918.

The 1918 Nebraska schedule originally consisted of this 10-game lineup. In a season of ever-changing circumstances and at least a dozen schedule adjustments, only two games would be played as originally billed. A third would happen only after twice being postponed.


https://www.huskermax.com/1918-war-influenza-and-football/

OCT. 1: INFLUENZA HITS LINCOLN

Spanish influenza swept into the state in late September and is now officially a concern in Lincoln. But it’s not enough of a worry to call off the Oct. 5 season opener against Iowa. The Daily Nebraskan contains a number of precautions to follow, such as avoiding “crowded street cars, rooms, etc.” Even so, students “packed the Temple theatre to the rafters” for a pep rally later in the week.

OCT. 7: DEATH COMES TO CAMPUS

On the Monday after the Iowa game, the university’s first flu-related fatality is reported in the Daily Nebraskan. The death of John J. Knoll was technically caused by pneumonia, as was common in influenza cases. By the end of the week, at least five more fatal university cases would be reported.

OCT. 12: UNIVERSITY CLOSED

The university heeds a Lincoln City Council order that all schools, theaters, churches and places of public amusement or gathering be closed indefinitely. The 1,700-member Student Army Training Corps, which includes the football players, is not affected, however. Meanwhile, the university unsuccessfully pursues Illinois as a possible Thanksgiving opponent.

OCT. 22: NO SCRIMMAGE FOR YOU!

Hoping to tune up for the Nov. 2 Notre Dame game, the Huskers schedule a three-way public scrimmage at Nebraska Field for Saturday, Oct. 26, with Cotner College and Nebraska Wesleyan. But a widening of state flu restrictions to include outdoor gatherings puts an end to those plans. The citywide death toll is now above 90.

OCT. 29: A SCRIMMAGE, BUT FANS BARRED

With armed guards stationed at the Nebraska Field gates to enforce the ban on public gatherings, the Huskers trample Cotner College in a Tuesday afternoon scrimmage, 33-0. The Notre Dame game is now just four days away, and the ban is expected to be lifted by then. Meanwhile, hopes of landing the Great Lakes Navy Bluejackets as a Thanksgiving opponent don’t pan out. (The “Jackies,” with George Halas starring, would win the 1919 Rose Bowl.)

WINS, LOSSES AND MORTALITY

Though Nebraska’s final record of 2-3-1 was unspectacular, the team’s perseverance though grim circumstances stands out. By the end of the year, Lincoln’s official tally of flu deaths had reached 265, more than half occurring in the brutal month of October. The state’s death toll was reported to be anywhere from 2,800 to 7,500. Globally, the great war killed 15 million to 19 million people, including 751 Nebraskans. The flu pandemic is believed to have taken 50 million to 100 million lives.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Teams from the 1930s
« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2020, 11:00:05 AM »
https://tiptop25.com/champ1931.html



Pictured above is 1931's game of the year, 6-1 Southern Cal at 6-0-1 Notre Dame. Notre Dame had not lost in 26 games, and they carried a 14-0 lead into the 4th quarter. But USC came roaring all the way back, kicking a 33 yard field goal with a minute left for a monumental 16-14 victory. After that USC won out, beating 5-3-1 Washington 44-7, 9-2 Georgia 60-0, and 11-1 Tulane 21-12 in the Rose Bowl. They would certainly have finished ranked #1 in an AP poll had there been one in 1931.

Here is how the "major selectors" listed in the NCAA Records Book, all selecting retroactively, see the 1931 college football national championship (omitting math/computer ratings, which neither I nor anyone else recognize as constituting titles):

10-1 Southern CalHelms, National Championship FoundationCFB Researchers
8-1 Pittsburgh: Parke Davis (tie)
9-1 Purdue: Parke Davis (tie)

The only other team I will be summarizing in this article is Tennessee. They went 9-0-1 for the 3rd time in 4 years, and all 3 years it was Kentucky who tied them. This year Kentucky finished 5-2-2 and would not have been ranked in an AP poll, which hurts Tennessee's cause, but the Volunteers defeated 9-1 Alabama 25-0, and they won 13-0 at 6-3-1 NYU in their finale.


Cincydawg

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Re: Teams from the 1930s
« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2020, 11:00:49 AM »
Tulane went 11-0 in the regular season under head coach Bernie Bierman, who would soon move on to Minnesota and win 5 consensus MNCs 1934-1941. But Southern Cal denied Tulane an MNC in the Rose Bowl. As indicated, 7-1-1 Northwestern's MNC hopes ended in their finale against Purdue, and 9-1 Alabama, co-MNC of 1930, was drubbed 25-0 by Tennessee. 8-1 Colgate lost 13-0 at 6-3-1 NYU, and 7-1 Cornell lost 14-0 at 5-3-1 Dartmouth, and neither played a tough enough schedule to put them in MNC contention with those losses. 7-1-1 Syracuse lost to Colgate, and 7-1-1 Columbia lost to Cornell, and the 2 teams tied each other to end the season.

CWSooner

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Re: Teams from the 1930s
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2020, 11:36:26 AM »
backpedaling from 1930 to 1918 - thought this was timely................

 Running a college football program during a major war is a challenge enough. Calls to duty send rosters into constant flux. Sports tend to slip several notches down society’s list of priorities.

Toss in the horrific Spanish flu pandemic and it’s a wonder any games were played at all in 1918.

The 1918 Nebraska schedule originally consisted of this 10-game lineup. In a season of ever-changing circumstances and at least a dozen schedule adjustments, only two games would be played as originally billed. A third would happen only after twice being postponed.


https://www.huskermax.com/1918-war-influenza-and-football/

OCT. 1: INFLUENZA HITS LINCOLN

Spanish influenza swept into the state in late September and is now officially a concern in Lincoln. But it’s not enough of a worry to call off the Oct. 5 season opener against Iowa. The Daily Nebraskan contains a number of precautions to follow, such as avoiding “crowded street cars, rooms, etc.” Even so, students “packed the Temple theatre to the rafters” for a pep rally later in the week.

OCT. 7: DEATH COMES TO CAMPUS

On the Monday after the Iowa game, the university’s first flu-related fatality is reported in the Daily Nebraskan. The death of John J. Knoll was technically caused by pneumonia, as was common in influenza cases. By the end of the week, at least five more fatal university cases would be reported.

OCT. 12: UNIVERSITY CLOSED

The university heeds a Lincoln City Council order that all schools, theaters, churches and places of public amusement or gathering be closed indefinitely. The 1,700-member Student Army Training Corps, which includes the football players, is not affected, however. Meanwhile, the university unsuccessfully pursues Illinois as a possible Thanksgiving opponent.

OCT. 22: NO SCRIMMAGE FOR YOU!

Hoping to tune up for the Nov. 2 Notre Dame game, the Huskers schedule a three-way public scrimmage at Nebraska Field for Saturday, Oct. 26, with Cotner College and Nebraska Wesleyan. But a widening of state flu restrictions to include outdoor gatherings puts an end to those plans. The citywide death toll is now above 90.

OCT. 29: A SCRIMMAGE, BUT FANS BARRED

With armed guards stationed at the Nebraska Field gates to enforce the ban on public gatherings, the Huskers trample Cotner College in a Tuesday afternoon scrimmage, 33-0. The Notre Dame game is now just four days away, and the ban is expected to be lifted by then. Meanwhile, hopes of landing the Great Lakes Navy Bluejackets as a Thanksgiving opponent don’t pan out. (The “Jackies,” with George Halas starring, would win the 1919 Rose Bowl.)

WINS, LOSSES AND MORTALITY

Though Nebraska’s final record of 2-3-1 was unspectacular, the team’s perseverance though grim circumstances stands out. By the end of the year, Lincoln’s official tally of flu deaths had reached 265, more than half occurring in the brutal month of October. The state’s death toll was reported to be anywhere from 2,800 to 7,500. Globally, the great war killed 15 million to 19 million people, including 751 Nebraskans. The flu pandemic is believed to have taken 50 million to 100 million lives.
Good stuff, Fearless.
The 1918-19 pandemic was called the Spanish Flu, but it may have started in the U.S.  It spread rapidly, partly because the Wilson administration didn't want to lower wartime morale by admitting that it existed, and so censored any mention of it.
Per the Font of All Wisdom and Knowledge:
Quote
The 1918 influenza pandemic (January 1918 – December 1920; colloquially known as the Spanish flu) was an unusually deadly influenza pandemic, the first of the two pandemics involving H1N1 influenza virus, with the second being the swine flu in 2009.[1] The Spanish flu infected 500 million people around the world,[2] or about 27% of the then world population of between 1.8 and 1.9 billion, including people on isolated Pacific islands and in the Arctic. The death toll is estimated to have been anywhere from 17 million[3] to 50 million, and possibly as high as 100 million, making it one of the deadliest epidemics in human history.[4][5]
Infectious diseases already limited life expectancy in the early 20th century, but life expectancy in the United States dropped by about 12 years in the first year of the pandemic.[6][7][8] Most influenza outbreaks disproportionately kill the very young and the very old, with a higher survival rate for those in between, but the Spanish flu pandemic resulted in a higher than expected mortality rate for young adults.[9]
To maintain morale, wartime censors minimized early reports of illness and mortality in Germany, the United Kingdom, France, and the United States.[10][11] Papers were free to report the epidemic's effects in neutral Spain (such as the grave illness of King Alfonso XIII).[12] These stories created a false impression of Spain as especially hard hit,[13] giving rise to the pandemic's nickname, "Spanish flu".[14]
Scientists offer several possible explanations for the high mortality rate of the 1918 influenza pandemic. Some analyses have shown the virus to be particularly deadly because it triggers a cytokine storm, which ravages the stronger immune system of young adults.[15] In contrast, a 2007 analysis of medical journals from the period of the pandemic[16][17] found that the viral infection was no more aggressive than previous influenza strains. Instead, malnourishment, overcrowded medical camps and hospitals, and poor hygiene promoted bacterial superinfection. This superinfection killed most of the victims, typically after a somewhat prolonged death bed.[18][19]
. . .
Historical and epidemiological data are inadequate to identify with certainty the pandemic's geographic origin.[2] Different hypotheses have been made about it, with the three main ones being Kansas in the United States, a British army base in France, and northern China [20]

Historian Alfred W. Crosby stated that the flu originated in Kansas,[21] and popular author John Barry described Haskell County, Kansas, as the point of origin.[15] It has also been stated that, by late 1917, there had already been a first wave of the epidemic in at least 14 US military camps.[22]
As you can see from the graph below, October 1918 was indeed a very bad month.

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FearlessF

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Re: Teams from the 1930s
« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2020, 11:50:08 AM »
Huskers had a game with Camp Funston scheduled that season..........

OCT. 10: CAMP FUNSTON GAME CANCELED

In the Huskers’ first flu-related game cancellation, the Oct. 12 contest with the Camp Funston team from Fort Riley, Kan., is called off two days before it was to happen. The citywide death toll is now approaching 30. Athletic director Scott says he still hopes to have six home games when all is said and done. (Oddly enough, Camp Funston is where the “Spanish” flu is believed to have originated in early 1918.)
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Cincydawg

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Re: Teams from the 1930s
« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2020, 02:08:52 PM »
I have visited four American cemeteries in France, three with WW One burials, and quite a few markers list 1919 as year of death.

Cincydawg

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Re: Teams from the 1930s
« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2020, 03:05:11 PM »
10-0 Southern CalHelms, National Championship FoundationCFB ResearchersParke Davis (tie)
8-0 Michigan: Parke Davis (tie)
9-0 Colgate: Parke Davis (tie)

Parke Davis' 3-way tie is shocking, not because he selected Michigan and Colgate, but because he also selected Southern Cal, the only time he ever deigned to select a West Coast team as national champion. But Parke Davis' picks aren't bad this time out, so I will be summarizing all 3 of these teams and measuring each to see if an imaginary crown fits. If there had been an AP poll in 1932, Michigan would have had an outside shot (let's say 10%) of being #1 at the end of the regular season, but Southern Cal would have easily been #1 in a post-bowl poll.

This year's major teams that came to close to perfect
 seasons (all ratings in this article, except as noted, come from my hypothetical 1932 AP poll top 25):

  • 7-0-1 Purdue (#4): Beat 5-3 Minnesota (#13) and 6-1-1 Wisconsin (#11), tied at 3-4-1 Northwestern (#14).
  • 9-0-1 Tennessee (#5): Beat 8-2 Alabama (#17) and 7-3 Duke, tied at 6-1-2 Vanderbilt (#19).
  • 7-1 Brown (#9): Beat 6-2-2 Holy Cross and 7-1-1 Columbia (#22), lost their finale 21-0 to 9-0 Colgate (#3).
  • 10-0-1 Texas Christian (#10): Beat 8-2 Texas and 7-3 Rice, tied at 6-3-1 LSU.
  • 9-0-1 Auburn (#16): Beat 7-3 Duke and 6-2-1 Tulane, tied by 5-4-2 South Carolina in Birmingham in their finale.
  • 7-1 Michigan State (#18): Beat 6-2 Fordham (#23) and 8-2 Detroit, lost 26-0 at 8-0 Michigan (#2).
  • 8-0-1 Centenary (#25): Beat 8-2 Texas and 6-3-1 LSU, tied by 1-6-2 Arkansas in their finale.

Southern Cal 1932 Nicknamed the The Thundering Herd


Utah (6-1-1)35-0(#40-50)
Washington State (7-1-1)20-0#21
Oregon State (4-6)10-0
Loyola-Marymount (4-4)6-0
at Stanford (6-4-1)13-0(#31-39)
California (7-3-2)27-7(#26-30)
Oregon (6-3-1)33-0(#31-39)
at Washington (6-2-2)9-6(#26-30)
Notre Dame (7-2)13-0#7
Rose Bowl
Pittsburgh (8-1-2)

35-0

#6

There was only one significant new player this season, and the offense rested heavily on him: Hall of Fame quarterback Irvine "Cotton" Warburton (pictured). He led the team in rushing and scoring in 1932 and 1933, and was a consensus AA in 1933. He wasn't actually a starter this season, but that's because he was small, 5' 7" and 145 #, and Howard Jones wanted to keep him from getting too beat up. So Cotton Warburton was handled like Notre Dame's backs, usually coming in for the 2nd quarter. He became a film and television editor, eventually winning an Academy Award for Mary Poppins.



OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Teams from the 1930s
« Reply #40 on: March 16, 2020, 03:08:28 PM »
I'm always amazed at how many babies are buried at really old cemetaries.  There are a few in GA from Revolutionary War times and wow, these people lost a lot of young ones and kept having more.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Teams from the 1930s
« Reply #41 on: March 16, 2020, 03:09:39 PM »
Back then, teams often had 4-5 players with (relatively) many pass attempts.  Qb, RB, FB weren't necessarily different positions yet. 

“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

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