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Topic: Teams from the 1930s
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Cincydawg · « **Reply #42 on:** March 16, 2020, 03:14:10 PM »

Here are the significant games for Michigan and Princeton in 1933. The opponent rankings come from my 1933 top 25, which is based on a hypothetical post-bowl AP poll (within logical reason of course).

[th]Michigan 7-0-1[/th]
[th]Princeton 9-0[/th]

Ohio State (7-1)	13-0	#11
at Illinois (5-3)	7-6	(#26-30)
Iowa (5-3)	10-6	#9
Minnesota (4-0-4)	0-0	#7

Columbia (8-1)	20-0	#5
Washington & Lee (4-4-2)	6-0	(Unranked)
Dartmouth (4-4-1)	7-0	(Unranked)
Navy (5-4)	13-0	(#33-50)

Cincydawg · « **Reply #43 on:** March 16, 2020, 03:15:27 PM »

The next highest rated teams would have been 10-1-1 Southern Cal and 4-0-4 Minnesota, both of whom were erratic and therefore difficult to rate, especially Minnesota.

Southern Cal was the 2-time defending national champion, but their 25 game winning streak came to an end with a 0-0 tie against 6-2-2 Oregon State in Portland. Two weeks later they lost the PCC title to 8-2-1 Stanford 13-7 at home. But USC played an impressive schedule, beating 5-3-1 Washington State 33-0, 6-3-1 St. Mary's (California) 14-7, 6-3-2 California 6-3, 9-1 Oregon (co-champion of the PCC with Stanford) 26-0, 8-2 Georgia 31-0, and 5-4 Washington 13-7. PCC champions Oregon and Stanford were not nearly so impressive. 9-1 Oregon's schedule was much easier than was USC's, and Stanford was tied by 1-5-2 Northwestern and beaten by 5-4 Washington.

Minnesota's 4-0-4 record was not as strong as USC's 10-1-1, but actually Minnesota had a better relevant record than USC did, thanks to a tie with #1 Michigan and a victory over #3 Pittsburgh. But Minnesota was tied by a pair of 1-5-2 teams, Indiana and Northwestern, which is pretty ugly, and they were also tied by 6-1-1 Purdue, so those results, plus USC's tough schedule, give reason to rate USC higher. An AP poll almost certainly would have done so, and therefore we'll bring USC in at #6 and Minnesota at #7.

At their best, Minnesota was an MNC caliber team, as their tie with #1 Michigan and victory over #3 Pittsburgh show. They also beat 5-3 Iowa 19-7, and Iowa will make the top 10 (as discussed below). But their worst efforts were awful. On top of tying a pair of 1-5-2 teams, they barely edged 2-5-1 Wisconsin 6-3 in their finale. But great things lay ahead for Minnesota: they would go on to win an MNC in each of the next 3 seasons for a rare "threepeat."

Cincydawg · « **Reply #44 on:** March 16, 2020, 03:33:58 PM »

How to block place kicks:

Cincydawg · « **Reply #45 on:** March 16, 2020, 03:34:24 PM »

https://tiptop25.com/top25s_1901_1935.html

1935 Fixed UPI Poll

1) Minnesota 8-0	--
2) Stanford 8-1	+4
3) Southern Methodist 12-1	-1
4) Princeton 9-0	-1
5) Texas Christian 12-1	-1
6) California 9-1	+3
7) UCLA 8-2	+12
8) Ohio State 7-1	-3
9) Notre Dame 7-1-1	-1
10) Louisiana State 9-2	-3
11) Pittsburgh 7-1-2	-1
12) St. Mary's (California) 5-2-2	+11
13) Fordham 6-1-2	-2
14) Auburn 8-2	+1
15) Duke 8-2	-2
16) North Carolina 8-1	-4
17) Holy Cross 9-0-1	-3
18) Northwestern 4-3-1	-2
19) Army 6-2-1	--
20) Oregon 6-3 Rice 8-3	IN IN
22) Iowa 4-2-2	-3
23) Washington 5-3	--
24) Nebraska 6-2-1	-1
25) Marquette 7-1 Ohio 8-0	-2 -2

Cincydawg · « **Reply #46 on:** March 16, 2020, 03:38:34 PM »

We see by 1935 mostly the current major programs in that fake poll, with a few Ivies and Others included. But it's starting to look pretty familiar.

Notre Dame is consistently in the top, USC and Michigan often are, we don't see Texas and Oklahoma and Nebraska much.

FearlessF · « **Reply #47 on:** March 16, 2020, 04:31:49 PM »

apparently the Huskers impressive run in the 20's knocking off Rockne and the four horsemen didn't carry much water in the 30's.

in 31 the 8-2 Huskers lost to Northwestern and had a bad loss to Pittsburgh

in 32 the Huskers led by Dana X. Bible were 7-1-1 with the loss by one point to Minnesooota and the tie with Pittsburgh

https://www.huskermax.com/games/1932/02minnesota32.html

in 33 the Huskers were 8-1 with a 26-0 win over Texas and the only loss 0-6 to Pitt again - definitely a thorn

in 34 they were merely 6-3, but loses to Minnesoota and Pitt and K-state

in 35 the same, losses to Minnesota, Pitt and a tie with K-state

in 36 beat K-state 40-0, but a 0-7 loss to Minnesota and another loss to Pitt

37, 6-1-2 with the loss 6 point loss to Pitt, beating the Gophers

HUSKERS TAKE DOWN
NATIONAL CHAMPS
IN BIFF JONES’ DEBUT

https://www.huskermax.com/game/1937-minnesota-football/

nice video here of Pitt

https://www.huskermax.com/game/1937-pittsburgh-football/

Cincydawg · « **Reply #48 on:** March 16, 2020, 06:38:32 PM »

https://tiptop25.com/champ1936.html

There was a great deal of argument in the offseason over who the "true" MNC was. I think Pittsburgh would have moved to #1 in a post-bowl AP poll, but we'll never know for sure, so when I fixed the 1936 AP poll, I just moved Pittsburgh into a tie for #1 with Minnesota. I think either team could be ranked #1, and both should be considered co-champions of 1936. I go into more detail in my article on fixing the 1936 AP poll, but the argument between these 2 teams can be summed up as follows:

For Pittsburgh, we have the key comparative scores listed above-- this was the main reason people at the time thought Pitt was better. They had a worse straight record, 8-1-1 to Minnesota's 7-1, but they also played a tougher schedule, and Pitt was 4-1-1 (.750) against teams ranked in the fixed AP top 25, while Minnesota was 2-1 (.667). So Pittsburgh actually had the better record when you take strength of schedule into account.

For Minnesota, there is the nature of the teams' losses. Minnesota's only loss came at #3 Northwestern, whereas Pitt lost to #14 Duquesne at home and they tied #15 Fordham on the road. Those are some ugly results for an MNC hopeful, and I think they give just enough reason for someone to rank Minnesota #1 (though I would go with Pitt myself).

The Other 5 MNC Candidates in 1936
Though Minnesota and Pittsburgh get all the MNC attention for 1936, and though they were indeed the most worthy, there were a total of 7 candidates worth looking at for this season. Rather than write up a full-blown summary of each, I'll briefly cover the other 5 candidates here, in order of where they finished ranked in the 1936 fixed AP poll (all rankings in this article come from that top 25 list except as noted otherwise).

#3 Northwestern 7-1

Iowa (3-4-1)	18-7
North Dakota State (4-5)	40-7
Ohio State (5-3)	14-13	#20
at Illinois (4-3-1)	13-2
Minnesota (7-1)	6-0	#1
Wisconsin (2-6)	26-18
at Michigan (1-7)	9-0
at Notre Dame (6-2-1)	6-26	#7

Cincydawg · « **Reply #49 on:** March 16, 2020, 06:45:16 PM »

https://tiptop25.com/fixing1937.html

Seasons were messy with no clear top team.

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #50 on:** March 16, 2020, 06:51:26 PM »

With all those ties back then, I wouldn't be confident in "fixing" anything.

FearlessF · « **Reply #51 on:** March 16, 2020, 06:52:15 PM »

parity in college football ???

MrNubbz · « **Reply #52 on:** March 16, 2020, 07:06:54 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 03:33:58 PM

How to block place kicks:

That is one freaking cool photo - ya wanna be there.Playing in the mud perhaps for a keg or two when it's over ride the train home overnite

Cincydawg · « **Reply #53 on:** March 16, 2020, 07:07:23 PM »

There seem to be critical games where one team seemed to outplay the other but some critical turnover or penalty led to a 6-0 loss, or the like.

This is an interesting period, to me. Alabama was pretty good during this era. Tennessee had some impressive teams later in the decade.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #54 on:** March 16, 2020, 07:08:19 PM »

Extra points back then were dubious affairs. I surmise they had the 2 point conversion option? Maybe not.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #55 on:** March 16, 2020, 07:10:28 PM »

https://tiptop25.com/champ1938.html

Pictured above is one of many big gains by 11-0 Tennessee in their 17-0 Orange Bowl victory over 10-1 Oklahoma. By any measurable criteria, Tennessee was the best team of 1938, but they wound up #2 in the AP poll. 11-0 Texas Christian, led by national sensation and Heisman Trophy recipient Davey O'Brien, was #1.

Here's how organizations listed in the NCAA Records Book, all except the AP poll selecting retroactively, see the 1938 mythical national championship (omitting math/computer ratings, which are not generally accepted as MNCs):

Texas Christian: AP Poll, National Championship Foundation, Helms
Tennessee: CFB Researchers

When I fixed the 1938 AP poll, I moved Tennessee into a tie with Texas Christian for #1. Details are in the linked article, but basically Tennessee played a tougher schedule and performed better against it. Tennessee's opponents were 62-42-3, and Tennessee outscored them 293-16. TCU's opponents were 46-55-4, and they outscored them 269-60. Even using rankings from the original AP poll, Tennessee won 13-0 at #13 Alabama in the regular season, then beat #4 Oklahoma 17-0 in the Orange Bowl, while TCU played no ranked opponent until they beat #6 Carnegie 15-7 in the Sugar Bowl. Using the rankings of the fixed poll, Tennessee defeated #3, #9, and #21, while TCU still just beat #6.

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Topic: Teams from the 1930s

Cincydawg

Re: Teams from the 1930s

Cincydawg

Re: Teams from the 1930s

Cincydawg

Re: Teams from the 1930s

Cincydawg

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Cincydawg

Re: Teams from the 1930s

FearlessF

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Cincydawg

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Cincydawg

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OrangeAfroMan

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FearlessF

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MrNubbz

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Cincydawg

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Cincydawg

Re: Teams from the 1930s

Cincydawg

Re: Teams from the 1930s