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Topic: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
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B1G41 · « **Reply #98 on:** December 11, 2018, 11:41:19 AM »

The 'RICH' will always be richer...unless something major happens to upset the Status Quo.

The solution for this issue along with the playoff selections will come to a head with the next TV contracts. It may need be fully resolved at that point but EVENTUALLY...

I think there will likely be a POWER4 with the G5 left behind as an entity of their own. Then the 4 champions will always face each other in the playoff and that will be it.

For the B1G to expand to the 16, they have more difficulties to overcome than the other conferences. The current rules state that ANY expansion has to come from within the current footprint states OR states that border that footprint of states. Unless that changes; OU and Texas cannot join.

Also, there are fairly strict rules about academics that had to be 'worked around' already to get Nebraska in; and except from a Football viewpoint, Nebraska has been a more questionable addition than Rutgers! (I know most of us focus on football only on this board, but that's the reality!)

The Big 12 and SEC have no concern about borders or academics, just competition for eyeballs; so they will find it easier to accommodate any school that may want to merge.

The B1Gs best bets are Virginia and Missouri...but there is no good reason for them to leave their current conferences unless ALL the TV deals get re-done AND the other 4 work with the B1G to smooth things out. I'm not so sure that's likely at present!

LittlePig · « **Reply #99 on:** December 11, 2018, 11:46:14 AM »

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 10, 2018, 06:19:03 PM

Northwestern has Rutgers, not MSU. Illinois has MSU, not Rutgers.

You may want to double check your facts.
From 2016 to 2021, NW plays MSU every year and ILL plays Rutgers every year. The following are the fixed rivals from 2016 to 2021.
OSU-Neb
Mich-Wisc
PSU-Iowa
MSU-NW
MD-Minn
Rut-ILL
Indy-Purdue

FearlessF · « **Reply #100 on:** December 11, 2018, 04:11:37 PM »

Quote from: utee94 on December 11, 2018, 10:00:00 AM

OK. There are now 14 teams in the B1G. So you drop the divisions, move to a 13-game conference schedule, and play a full round robin. That solves all the problems doesn't it?

12 teams and 11 conference games would be even better, but I'm sure the TV networks would love your proposal above
that's a lot of quality content

FearlessF · « **Reply #101 on:** December 11, 2018, 04:13:06 PM »

Quote from: B1G41 on December 11, 2018, 11:41:19 AM

The 'RICH' will always be richer...unless something major happens to upset the Status Quo.

The solution for this issue along with the playoff selections will come to a head with the next TV contracts. It may need be fully resolved at that point but EVENTUALLY...

I think there will likely be a POWER4 with the G5 left behind as an entity of their own. Then the 4 champions will always face each other in the playoff and that will be it.

For the B1G to expand to the 16, they have more difficulties to overcome than the other conferences. The current rules state that ANY expansion has to come from within the current footprint states OR states that border that footprint of states. Unless that changes; OU and Texas cannot join.

Also, there are fairly strict rules about academics that had to be 'worked around' already to get Nebraska in; and except from a Football viewpoint, Nebraska has been a more questionable addition than Rutgers! (I know most of us focus on football only on this board, but that's the reality!)

The Big 12 and SEC have no concern about borders or academics, just competition for eyeballs; so they will find it easier to accommodate any school that may want to merge.

The B1Gs best bets are Virginia and Missouri...but there is no good reason for them to leave their current conferences unless ALL the TV deals get re-done AND the other 4 work with the B1G to smooth things out. I'm not so sure that's likely at present!

as Nebraska has proven, all the rules can be changed when there's enough money involved

LittlePig · « **Reply #102 on:** December 11, 2018, 11:16:11 PM »

Maybe somebody mentioned this already but maybe this discussion by Delany to eliminate divisions is all a prelude to expansion to a 15th school. In which case, 2 divisions would not work anymore

With 15 teams, I am guessing you could go a schedule with 4 permanent rivals and 10 teams you play half the time. Another way to do this is have 3 divisions with 5 teams in each division.

TyphonInc · « **Reply #103 on:** December 12, 2018, 08:49:13 AM »

Quote from: B1G41 on December 11, 2018, 11:41:19 AM

Quote from: B1G41
The 'RICH' will always be richer...unless something major happens to upset the Status Quo.

The solution for this issue along with the playoff selections will come to a head with the next TV contracts. It may need be fully resolved at that point but EVENTUALLY...

I think there will likely be a POWER4 with the G5 left behind as an entity of their own. Then the 4 champions will always face each other in the playoff and that will be it.

For the B1G to expand to the 16, they have more difficulties to overcome than the other conferences. The current rules state that ANY expansion has to come from within the current footprint states OR states that border that footprint of states. Unless that changes; OU and Texas cannot join.

Also, there are fairly strict rules about academics that had to be 'worked around' already to get Nebraska in; and except from a Football viewpoint, Nebraska has been a more questionable addition than Rutgers! (I know most of us focus on football only on this board, but that's the reality!)

The Big 12 and SEC have no concern about borders or academics, just competition for eyeballs; so they will find it easier to accommodate any school that may want to merge.

The B1Gs best bets are Virginia and Missouri...but there is no good reason for them to leave their current conferences unless ALL the TV deals get re-done AND the other 4 work with the B1G to smooth things out. I'm not so sure that's likely at present!

A lot of Dogma here that has since been proven inaccurate.
"ANY expansion has to come from within the current footprint states OR states that border that footprint of states."
Delany has flat out said they no longer adhere to the continuous footprint clause, and that the conference is out for the best fit program.
"strict rules about academics"
This has also been downgraded to a preference by Delany. The B1G wants the best fit for the conference. And that can mean a lot of things.

I've mentioned several times I think Missouri and Virginia Tech would be great additions.

I see Missouri having a lot in common with Nebraska, Iowa and Illinois making them a cultural fit. Missouri openly campaigned for access to the B1G, and if the athletic money approximately the same I really think Missouri would prefer to have access to the Academic Big Ten. And if B1G would put Missouri in the "West" They would prefer that to being in the SEC East.

Virginia Tech I would argue has more common with B1G than Virginia. And Culturally seems to come across alot like PSU, OSU and Maryland. UV has a Southern Cultural (I would call it a Southern M*ch*g*n, and nobody wants more UM around here.) VT has an Appalachian one. Both are large land grant Universities with a focus on Graduate Research. VT, has much shorter history with the ACC and only had UV and a couple of Big East transplants as rivals. UV has many more southern rivals. And if Football is the driving force (Hint: it is) VT's history and passion for the Hookies appears to far eclipse that of UV. Either school would be a fine addition I just think VT is a better one

All told the B1G is getting the biggest piece of Pie for the next 6 years.
"According to Wilner’s projections for 2018, distributions of more than $50 million would give the Big Ten a sizable revenue advantage over schools from the SEC (approximately $43 million each), the Big 12 ($36.5 million), the Pac-12 ($32 million) and the ACC ($28 million)."

medinabuckeye1 · « **Reply #104 on:** December 12, 2018, 12:27:21 PM »

Quote from: TyphonInc on December 12, 2018, 08:49:13 AM

I've mentioned several times I think Missouri and Virginia Tech would be great additions.

I'm not personally opposed to Mizzou but I think it is very unlikely for the foreseeable future. As you pointed out, they openly campaigned for a B1G invite recently and didn't get it. My hunch is that if we had any interest in adding Mizzou we would have added them when they were available and practically begging for an invite. It just wouldn't make sense to give them the cold shoulder in that situation (which we already did) then turn around a few years later and invite them to join. I think that two key factors are population of state and population growth. States currently in the B1G footprint ranked by population rank (in the US Census July 1, 2016 estimate):

#5 Illinois, 12.8 Million, down ~30k since 2010
#6 Pennsylvania, 12.8 Million, up ~80k since 2010
#7 Ohio, 11.6 Million, up ~80k since 2010
#10 Michigan, 9.9 Million, up ~40k since 2010 (Note, Michigan was still #8 right behind Ohio in the 2010 census but the Census Bureau now believes that both Georgia and North Carolina have passed Michigan. At current rates both of them will be close to Ohio in the 2020 census and pass Ohio in the 2030 census)
#11 New Jersey, 8.9 Million, up ~150k since 2010
#17 Indiana, 6.6 Million, up ~150k since 2010
#19 Maryland, 6.0 Million, up ~240k since 2010
#20 Wisconsin, 5.8 Million, up ~90k since 2010
#22 Minnesota, 5.5 Million, up ~210k since 2010
#30 Iowa, 3.1 Million, up ~90k since 2010
#37 Nebraska, 1.9 Million, up ~80k since 2010

Note that all 11 states in the footprint are fairly slow growth. Now look at the options that get tossed around:

#2 Texas, 27.9 Million, up ~ 2.8 Million since 2010
#8 Georgia, 10.3 Million, up ~ 620k since 2010
#9 North Carolina, 10.1 Million, up ~ 610k since 2010
#12 Virginia, 8.4 Million, up ~ 410k since 2010
#18 Missouri, 6.1 Million, up ~ 110k since 2010
#28 Oklahoma, 3.9 Million, up ~ 170 since 2010
#35 Kansas, 2.9 Million, up ~ 50k since 2010
#38 West Virginia, 1.8 Million, down ~20k since 2010

IMHO, the above tables are why Mizzou didn't get an invite when they wanted one and why they probably will not get an invite in the foreseeable future. I also believe that the top four states that I listed (Texas, Georgia, North Carolina, and Virginia) are the states that will most likely provide our new members if and when we decide to expand. I continue to believe that UNC/UVA is the most likely long-term plan. That said, I do not believe that Oklahoma would get a stand-alone invite but if they were a package deal with UT-A, we'd jump on that.
A substantial portion of the total US population lives in the B1G footprint. Additionally, our slower relative growth has an interesting positive side-effect. A LOT of people have moved out of the B1G footprint over the past decades but some of them took their rooting interests with them so I believe that we have a VERY large "disapora" of B1G alums and fans living in the faster growing areas. The problem, as I see it, is that the shelf-life of that "disapora" is limited. If you or I move to NC we'll still be tOSU fans. Our kids might pick that up from us, but their kids are likely to be only vaguely cognizant of the fact that grandpa went to Ohio State.
On the subject of VaTech, until I went there for the Ohio State game there a few years ago I would have STRONGLY advocated for UVA over VaTech. Having been there I'd be ok with either and I agree with you that nobody wants another UM around here, ugh.

Roaddawg · « **Reply #105 on:** December 12, 2018, 12:28:32 PM »

Quote from: LittlePig on December 06, 2018, 02:24:41 PM

I am a little confused. The article states it would have been better if OSU and Mich played in the CCG. But they did play, just a week prior to that.
If you accept the idea that OSU, Mich, and PSU are the 3 best teams, they all did play each other, so what's the problem?

Spot on! Michigan needs to stop crying behind the scenes to Delaney and win the game when they play. We are nine game into the B10 CCG, and WHO is the only big mouth school from the B10 that has not made the trip to Indy-Michigan. They hired Jimmy Football, we don't need Jimmy TV Deal trying to assist. It does suck in the East with tOSU, PSU, MSU and M on the schedule, especially when it hits in Late October/November, but to me it is what makes the season so damn good.

Entropy · « **Reply #106 on:** December 12, 2018, 12:33:04 PM »

I personally believe Missouri was going to be invited or was strongly considered. I think the BIG prefers their members to be less leaky... Missouri didn't just beg, they talked about it. BIG doesn't want the Big12 approach to decisions and Missouri was talking.

JMO

Brutus Buckeye · « **Reply #107 on:** December 12, 2018, 02:06:58 PM »

Doesn't Mizzou have some pretty severe issues with declining enrollment?

Entropy · « **Reply #108 on:** December 12, 2018, 02:16:58 PM »

Yes. They have. The incidents that made the news a few years ago ended up discouraging applications. It is my understanding this discouragement is across the board and not isolated to one demographic.

FearlessF · « **Reply #109 on:** December 12, 2018, 11:33:42 PM »

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on December 12, 2018, 12:27:21 PM

I think that two key factors are population of state and population growth.

a third factor that could possibly become more important is TV viewer rating.
as revenue shifts from the "basic cable" number of subscribers (population) to number of "eyeballs watching" people willing to pay for the specific channel or game (viewers)
Viewer Ratings have long been important for advertisers (commercials), but will become increasingly important when revenue cannot be gained from those that are not watching.
this is an area that makes Nebraska more valuable than the 1.9 million population figure

medinabuckeye1 · « **Reply #110 on:** December 13, 2018, 07:29:09 AM »

Quote from: FearlessF on December 12, 2018, 11:33:42 PM

a third factor that could possibly become more important is TV viewer rating.
as revenue shifts from the "basic cable" number of subscribers (population) to number of "eyeballs watching" people willing to pay for the specific channel or game (viewers)
Viewer Ratings have long been important for advertisers (commercials), but will become increasingly important when revenue cannot be gained from those that are not watching.
this is an area that makes Nebraska more valuable than the 1.9 million population figure

No doubt. That is obviously why the B1G invited Nebraska instead of Mizzou a few years ago. The state of Missouri has 3x the population but I am quite confident that the Cornhuskers have MANY more fans than the Tigers.
Another school where that comes into play is Oklahoma. The Sooners would not be competitive with Mizzou, UVA, VaTech, UNC, or NCST based on population but they probably have more fans than all of those schools combined.
One thing to keep in mind though is that the bigger money comes from research. Years ago research money mostly came from corporations. Now it mostly comes from the Federal Government. In that arena population matters because it leads to seats in the US HoR.

LittlePig · « **Reply #111 on:** December 13, 2018, 09:54:33 AM »

Missouri would have been handy as a potential bridge to get to Texas.

Although it would be almost certain the Big Ten would take Texas alone if Texas wanted to come by themselves, I would guess Texas would try to drag along as many neighbors as they could as part of the deal.

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Topic: Talk of Eliminating Divisions

B1G41

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LittlePig

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FearlessF

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FearlessF

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LittlePig

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TyphonInc

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medinabuckeye1

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Roaddawg

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Entropy

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Brutus Buckeye

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Entropy

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FearlessF

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medinabuckeye1

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LittlePig

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