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Topic: Stirring the Pot

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FearlessF

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #238 on: October 05, 2018, 11:45:52 AM »
When I was young and single and my career was up and coming around 1990.....

I was doing technical sales training in Sausalito and fell in love with the SF bay area.  I could have found a good job, but the cost of living would have made me a pauper. 

Around the same time I was offered a good job in Minneapolis.  Nothing like SF, but the same issue.  Cost of living nearly double from small town Iowa.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #239 on: October 05, 2018, 11:46:58 AM »
If you buy the car outright, you can usually negotiate a deal on it and perhaps pay $37,000.  Now after 3 years your vehicle might be worth $20,000 and you're out $17,000 in depreciation, in simple terms, not including taxes etc.  If you keep the car 5 years, or better, 10 years, you end up way ahead if course, but if you keep it only 3 years, leasing can be more attractive because you don't have to try and sell or trade the car and get a lousy deal on that.
That was my thought. We're looking at a Lexus RX (or possibly NX), and I figured that if we leased and then bought out the lease, we'd probably end up paying more overall than just buying. 
And with a lease, as you mention, you have no equity. If you buy a car and over those first three years it's lost 40% of its value, but you've paid down 50% of its purchase price, you have equity. If you lease, you have nothing. But then if you've leased it for 3 years and still want to buy it out at 60% of its price, you'll end up eventually with equity but you'll end up overpaying for it. 

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The problem with leasing IMHO is that folks can buy a more expensive far for the same payment as they would if they bought it, so they do, and they of course end up after 3 years with zero equity, and get "hooked".  It's best to pay cash for the car and keep it a long long time, and better yet to buy used if you can, something off lease.  Don't get swayed by these "Factory Reconditioned" or "Certified preowned" whatever claims, those are mostly bogus.

That's my take as well. Leasing is a great way for people to drive cars they can't legitimately afford. 
My thought has always been as well that lease buy-outs is largely a way to sucker the people who tried to get into a too-low lease payment with restricted mileage like 10K a year when they legitimately drive 15K, and then are effectively forced into buying the car out when the lease is up because the excess mileage charges aren't something they can afford. 



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Best option is to buy a preleased car and let someone else take the depreciation, and then keep it a long time.  Cars last a long time these days with little or no repairs.

That last part is precisely what I've done for the last 25 years. Let someone else take the brutal beating, and nowadays you can get a 2-3 y/o car with a certified standing for really good prices.
That's what I've talked her into. A CPO RX 10-15K miles is something like a 20% discount over new. That's certainly not 20% of that car's life, since it's a Lexus and should go 200K+ miles easy. And they come with paid maintenance plans, warranty, etc. 
In fact, though, that makes me think of another benefit to leases from the dealer's perspective. It allows them to "sell" a car for 2-3 years undoubtedly soaking someone to pay more than the depreciation legitimately warrants, then take the car back from them and sell it for its real market value. Given the number of people in the market like me who want cars used with low mileage to let someone else eat the depreciation, it gives them a fleet of cars to sell to that consumer. I'll bet there are a LOT of us...

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #240 on: October 05, 2018, 12:01:09 PM »
Lol. I read stuff like this and it makes me think we not only live in different states,but different planets.  I live in a 4 BR, 2.5 BA,  2700 SQ that I paid 275k for 8 years ago.  
Yeah... It's a huge difference. I'd chalk it up to salaries being different out here, etc, but then I know from the time I was in management that the people I managed in a similar role/title in the rest of the country were making what I was making... So it's not like I was being compensated extra for that cost of living. 
But you're right. It's different out here. I remember when I first moved to SoCal, I had a motorcycle and one of my Purdue buddies did as well, so we went out into the mountains. We were stopped at a turnoff, and a "parade" of the local Ferrari club was going by. We watched as ~100 Ferraris roared past us. I looked at him and said "I'll bet there aren't that many Ferraris in the entire state of Indiana."
My wife and I often look at CO, since I have a lot of customers there, and because the rat race of SoCal is not always easy. We both think retirement away from here makes a lot of sense, but for now aren't jumping ship because of the kids. But when we look around and see this for similar cost to what the shoebox we're living in would take to buy, it certainly looks appealing!

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Occasionally, my wife and I will watch these House Hunters type shows and it blows our minds.

It will be a couple where the dude is like in IT and the wife walks dogs part time and their budget is 600k which will apparently get them a 900 SQ loft in San Francisco.  We can’t even wrap our heads around any of it.

Yep... A lot of people love to make fun of that one... 

FearlessF

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #241 on: October 05, 2018, 12:04:07 PM »
That's my take as well. Leasing is a great way for people to drive cars they can't legitimately afford. 

I was told long ago and still live by this:  If you can't pay for a car in 36 months, you can't afford it.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

MrNubbz

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #242 on: October 05, 2018, 12:04:52 PM »
almost like the land thieving Sooners
Well there's at least one decent one he plays QB in Cleveland
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

FearlessF

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #243 on: October 05, 2018, 12:06:13 PM »
the Horns fans do NOT agree
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #244 on: October 05, 2018, 12:11:57 PM »
I often have liked unusual cars that are not easy to find off lease, which can be a sticking point.

For a while, I lusted after the Cadillac CTSV station wagon with a manual transmission, but the feeling passed.

The condo we bought is on three levels, which is not what an elderly gentleman like myself would normally want.  I think it was on the market for a while because of the three levels.  We have grown to appreciate the separation that can afford, and the stairs are not bad.  And each floor has hallway access to an elevator anyway.  That did make moving in interesting.

FearlessF

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #245 on: October 05, 2018, 12:17:54 PM »
stairs are good for the legs and thus good for the heart and lungs
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #246 on: October 05, 2018, 12:26:57 PM »
Yeah, plus I've been running now for about two weeks, and it's starting to show.  I used to "get in shape" in 3-4 days.  No longer the case.

There is a track across the street in the park that has 200 m markers on it.  It used to be a horse track a long time back.

I have a slight twinge in the quad from yesterday and am backing off today.  A lot of stretching.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #247 on: October 05, 2018, 12:30:02 PM »
For a while, I lusted after the Cadillac CTSV station wagon with a manual transmission, but the feeling passed.
I've given up on the manual. My Jeep might be the last manual I own unless I start getting into classic cars.
I still love it. I don't like automatic transmissions. They don't seem to do what I want and expect them to do, when I want and expect them to do it. I know what gear I want, and when, and I'm happy to take the responsibility of selecting it.
But they're just becoming so hard to find in anything other than sports cars--which at 6'5" and now >40 yo, I don't want to be climbing in and out of. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #248 on: October 05, 2018, 12:40:23 PM »
We traded the CTS in on a GTI, mostly because I like cars with three letters.  The GTI has three pedals.

The wife likes it, which is important of course, I might opine critical.  She likes to accelerate, I'm more into cornering.

The GTI is the second car I've ever been in where I don't push the seat all the way back.  My first was the Chevy Sonic, which Daughter #1 now drives.  The GTI is somewhat akin to a larger Sonic with more power.

MrNubbz

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #249 on: October 05, 2018, 02:42:21 PM »
stairs are good for the legs and thus good for the heart and lungs
Remember that when you're sitting down having a Bud Fat and a cigar.....not that there's anything wrong with that
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

utee94

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #250 on: October 05, 2018, 02:52:12 PM »
the Horns fans do NOT agree
He's a native Texan from the Austin area.  I don't like that he went to OU and that he beat Texas while he was there, but he's a good kid.

FearlessF

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #251 on: October 05, 2018, 02:52:38 PM »
everything in moderation, even the stairs

and I even work hard at remembering in moderation
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

 

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