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Topic: Stirring the Pot

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Cincydawg

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2018, 10:10:27 AM »
Our run defense looked bad against Mizzou, and I suspect Bama is better than Mizzou.

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ELA

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2018, 10:34:18 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on September 26, 2018, 08:59:55 AM
I think for most CFB fans, the prospect of another NC for Bama is the worst possible outcome.

Having them in the playoffs again is bad enough.  It's boring.  Don't be boring.  Strikeouts are boring.
I don't care if Bama wins it or not.  I don't want them in it.  Nothing personal.  I don't want Ohio State in it either.  Or Oklahoma.  Or Clemson.  Georgia might be close behind.  I want new matchups.  I didn't watch a snap of Alabama-Clemson last year IIRC.  But if we get to the end and it is those teams, I don't have winner fatigue, I have participant fatigue.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #44 on: September 26, 2018, 10:49:06 AM »
Quote from: ELA on September 26, 2018, 10:34:18 AM
I don't care if Bama wins it or not.  I don't want them in it.  Nothing personal.  I don't want Ohio State in it either.  Or Oklahoma.  Or Clemson.  Georgia might be close behind.  I want new matchups.  I didn't watch a snap of Alabama-Clemson last year IIRC.  But if we get to the end and it is those teams, I don't have winner fatigue, I have participant fatigue.
Agreed. It's not exciting. 
That's one reason I want 8 and for it to be the P5 conference champions + 1 G5 + 2 at large. Admittedly, that's going to be at least one team (the G5) team that really nobody thinks has a legitimate shot at winning, and probably at least one of the P5 champions will fit that bill too.
I like rooting for underdogs. There are no underdogs when the same damn 4 teams go to the CFP every year.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #45 on: September 26, 2018, 11:04:38 AM »
I'm starting to believe that the playoffs were created to further increase the gap between the haves and have nots.



There are only 3-4 teams from each conference that have a real shot, and those 3-4 teams get the benefit of the doubt that others do not. The chosen few can even get in without a conference championship. The rest are up shit's creek without one.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #46 on: September 26, 2018, 11:19:03 AM »
We've always had wealth at the top, but the top was defined differently.  How many teams in each conference had a realistic change of a top five finish?  Three or four, and at times an outlier would break through, just as Washington did.  Georgia was an outlier last year to some extent starting out ranked about 15th.

It starts with recruiting of course and finishes with coaching, and some luck at times.  The teams that make the playoffs have recruited really well, not top ten, but top five, most of the time.  That top five in recruiting doesn't vary much year to year, and the top five in the polls don't vary much either.

I can't pine for the halcyon days when only Notre Dame, Michigan, and Army had teams with a shot.
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ELA

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #47 on: September 26, 2018, 11:34:09 AM »
Quote from: bwarbiany on September 26, 2018, 10:49:06 AM
I like rooting for underdogs. There are no underdogs when the same damn 4 teams go to the CFP every year.
Certainly not in the playoffs.  You had Michigan State and Washington, and both got blasted.  It's hard to get up 12 times a year (insert joke) so you get upsets, and it makes college football exciting.  Syracuse's win over Clemson last year was a very different narrative then in years past.  Changed from "landscape changing result" to "well Clemson better not lose again."  When you get to the CFP, I have a hard time believing you are going to catch Alabama or Ohio State or Clemson off guard.  So while you might have a day where the third best team could beat the best team, I have a hard time envisioning true upsets at that level.  When a team like Michigan State or Washington has a magical season, and gets a few breaks, I tend to think the CFP is going to be a cold dose of reality.
So I have participant fatigue, but I also worry that in the year a different team gets in, it will continue to not go well for them.  Granted there are certain years where maybe.  You have a CFP in 2013, those were not all time great Florida State or Auburn teams, things could have been a little more open.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #48 on: September 26, 2018, 11:54:47 AM »
How many teams have made the playoffs only once?  MSU, UW, UGA, I'm sure others.  It's not a closed club, it's just that Bama has made it every year, and Clemson in most years and OSU in many years.

If you go back to 1970, you probably have the same thing (different teams).
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847badgerfan

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #49 on: September 26, 2018, 12:09:31 PM »
Football was better when getting to the Orange, Cotton, Fiesta, Sugar and Rose Bowls mattered. 



It meant the team won a championship (or in the case of the Indy's, had a stellar season), and with a bowl win, another championship.



Much of that is lost now. To many, only the last team standing is what matters. It's a shame.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #50 on: September 26, 2018, 12:21:13 PM »
Most/many fans want some kind of "certain conclusion", which is one reason we have this playoff now, and calls for an extended playoff.  They don't like controversy, which I think can be fun.

But, in the bowl era, we still had the same teams making the major bowl games most of the time.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #51 on: September 26, 2018, 12:27:16 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on September 26, 2018, 12:21:13 PM
Most/many fans want some kind of "certain conclusion", which is one reason we have this playoff now, and calls for an extended playoff.  They don't like controversy, which I think can be fun.

But, in the bowl era, we still had the same teams making the major bowl games most of the time.
Well, in the 25 years or so leading up to the start of the playoffs, 9 out of 11 Big Ten teams made the Rose Bowl, and 8 out of 10 Pac 10 teams made it.
Apologies to Minnesota, Indiana, Oregon State and Arizona, of course.
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Anonymous Coward

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #52 on: September 26, 2018, 12:33:29 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on September 26, 2018, 12:21:13 PM
Most/many fans want some kind of "certain conclusion", which is one reason we have this playoff now, and calls for an extended playoff.  They don't like controversy, which I think can be fun.

But, in the bowl era, we still had the same teams making the major bowl games most of the time.
This feels true. My perspective has always been the opposite. Give me every controversy of a shared NC necessary to preserve the century+ traditions of the sport. Then again, I keep checking my phone and no one in charge is asking my opinion.
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utee94

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #53 on: September 26, 2018, 01:36:19 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 26, 2018, 12:09:31 PM
Football was better when getting to the Orange, Cotton, Fiesta, Sugar and Rose Bowls mattered.



It meant the team won a championship (or in the case of the Indy's, had a stellar season), and with a bowl win, another championship.



Much of that is lost now. To many, only the last team standing is what matters. It's a shame.
As you know well, I agree with this 100%.
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utee94

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #54 on: September 26, 2018, 01:40:15 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on September 26, 2018, 11:19:03 AM
We've always had wealth at the top, but the top was defined differently.  How many teams in each conference had a realistic change of a top five finish?  Three or four, and at times an outlier would break through, just as Washington did.  Georgia was an outlier last year to some extent starting out ranked about 15th.

It starts with recruiting of course and finishes with coaching, and some luck at times.  The teams that make the playoffs have recruited really well, not top ten, but top five, most of the time.  That top five in recruiting doesn't vary much year to year, and the top five in the polls don't vary much either.

I can't pine for the halcyon days when only Notre Dame, Michigan, and Army had teams with a shot.
And I see your point here, but the major thing that has changed vs. 3-4 decades ago, is the NATIONAL focus of the sport.
In 1985, we were excited to beat our rivals, win our conference, get to a good bowl game, and ideally win that, too.  It was a regional sport with more realistic, regional goals.  Getting to play for the MNC might have been limited to the select few then, as it is now, but that wasn't the sole focus of a team, nor was it the sole criterion by which a "successful" season was judged.
Heck, people used to enjoy actually watching the game as it was played on the field, between the white lines.  Now it seems all anybody wants to do is discuss relative conference strength, television revenue, and how that might affect which conference's teams have the best shot at a playoff berth.
No thanks.  Calgon, take me back to 1985 please.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: Stirring the Pot
« Reply #55 on: September 26, 2018, 01:49:57 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on September 25, 2018, 09:39:34 AM
2.  Wisconsin loses at Michigan but wins the West with the one loss and then defeats Michigan in the CG, and then 11-1 Ohio State makes the playoffs.
There is approximately zero chance of this happening.  In this scenario Wisconsin would be 12-1 and B1G Champions.  There have been two occasions when 1-loss non-Champions got in ahead of P5 Champions but in both of those cases the P5 Champs left out had two losses:
2017:  11-1 non-Champion Bama got in
  • 11-2 B1G Champion tOSU was left out
  • 11-2 Pac Champion USC was left out
2016:  11-1 non-Champion tOSU got in
  • 10-2 B12 Champion Oklahoma was left out
  • 11-2 B1G Champion Penn State was left out

Additionally, depending mostly on how TCU and BYU do, Wisconsin would have a tougher schedule.  

Ohio State's best opponents would presumably be:
  • Michigan (home)
  • Penn State (away)
  • Michigan State (away)
  • TCU (neutral)
Wisconsin's best opponents would presumably be:
  • Michigan (away)
  • Michigan (neutral)
  • Penn State (away)
  • Iowa (away)
  • BYU (home)
Even if BYU completely tanked and TCU won the rest of their games and the B12 Championship Wisconsin's SoS would be at least close to Ohio State's.  
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