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Topic: Sporty Cars (and trucks too now)

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utee94

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Re: Sporty Cars (and trucks too now)
« Reply #4088 on: Today at 10:21:44 AM »
Can't overlook the AMC Javelin when it comes to lesser known and/or under-appreciated muscle cars.


utee94

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Re: Sporty Cars (and trucks too now)
« Reply #4089 on: Today at 10:25:00 AM »
In looking through these, I feel like the AMCs and the MOPARS all shared some very similar lines, while the Fords and GMs were more distinctive from one another.

There are exceptions of course, and as the makes moved from the 60s into the 70s, I think the lines and aesthetics became more homogenized.

Just a general observation.


Cincydawg

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Re: Sporty Cars (and trucks too now)
« Reply #4090 on: Today at 10:29:03 AM »
The currrent crop of small "SUVs" look so similar I have to look carefully, if I care to bother.  My wife a few times has gone to the wrong car in Costco parking lot that is about the same color.  I chirp the horn for her.  

I think AMC tried to be different, at times pointlessly, like with the Pacer.

Wildcat4E

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Re: Sporty Cars (and trucks too now)
« Reply #4091 on: Today at 11:32:33 AM »
The currrent crop of small "SUVs" look so similar I have to look carefully, if I care to bother.  My wife a few times has gone to the wrong car in Costco parking lot that is about the same color.  I chirp the horn for her. 

This observation is saving me from having to trade my wife's 2015 Honda Pilot in for something newer.  She has opined that everything looks the same.

Ours only has 129K on it, spent the ton-o-money to replace the timing belt before 105K as directed, so hell, might as well keep driving it.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Sporty Cars (and trucks too now)
« Reply #4092 on: Today at 03:44:54 PM »
The currrent crop of small "SUVs" look so similar I have to look carefully, if I care to bother.  
She has opined that everything looks the same.
They're all designed by the same computer programs to optimize for the same performance in a wind tunnel. They all have to handle driver ergonomics--for a crossover, that driver to be slightly higher seating position / visibility than a sedan. They have to hold 5 passengers. And they're going to have a lifting rear gate and decent cargo capacity. That's the recipe. Therefore, the shape is going to be the shape. Beyond that, there might be some unique styling cues, but for many of them, there just isn't much differentiation. 

I've always sort of liked the Acura styling cues, with sharper lines and angles. It's actually one of the reasons that I like my wife's 2017 Lexus RX--they'd been a little too "bubbly" in the previous generation but her generation has sharp lines and angles that just look fantastic--more like an Acura than a Lexus, traditionally. That generation RX is the best I've ever seen from Lexus. (Now they've gone boxy, which I don't like). For me, my Acura RDX is probably a little "softer" than I like for Acura. The front end I like and has decent lines, but the rear is kinda round. I like my car, but the styling to me looks "good" but not something special.

But I wouldn't be shocked if most people ( like @utee94 ) look at my car and say that it looks like every other midsize crossover on the market. Because it's the same shape as every single other one of them. 


utee94

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Re: Sporty Cars (and trucks too now)
« Reply #4093 on: Today at 03:56:32 PM »
I mean, you don't HAVE to design a car to be optimized in the wind tunnel.  It's a choice, and it's a choice that results in so many of those vehicles looking the same.  But it's not a requirement.

And there are several examples of SUV-type vehicles that don't fit that typical aerodynamically designed humpy profile.







betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Sporty Cars (and trucks too now)
« Reply #4094 on: Today at 04:34:43 PM »
Well admittedly a Land Cruiser and Jeep Wrangler are not exactly remotely the same class of vehicle. A Land Cruiser is a true SUV, and a Wrangler is an off-roader. 2

I'm not as familiar with exactly what the Rivian is trying to be, but the R1S is built on the same platform as the R1T (a truck), so it is almost by design more truck-like than car-like. 

utee94

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Re: Sporty Cars (and trucks too now)
« Reply #4095 on: Today at 04:49:28 PM »
I'm just pointing out that they are design choices.  There's no reason a similar design choice couldn't be made for the small SUVs and crossovers that we're discussing. 

Indeed, were I in the market for such a vehicle, I'd most certainly be more inclined to buy one that featured the sharp, angular, squared-off aesthetics of the three above, rather than the stereotypical humpy options that are currently offered.

And although the Jeep might be an offroader to you, the majority of owners notoriously never really use that functionality.  They just like them because they look cool.  And since it meets most of the other criteria you mentioned for the class of vehcile-- driver situated higher than a sedan, seating for 5, decent rear cargo space-- it could be argued that Jeeps remain popular partly because they offer similar functionality as the smaller SUVs and crossovers, but decidedly different aesthetics.



utee94

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Re: Sporty Cars (and trucks too now)
« Reply #4096 on: Today at 04:52:35 PM »
One thing's for sure, nobody is ever going to argue that a Jeep Wrangler was designed with efficiency of aero in mind.  If anything, it appears to be the complete opposite!


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Sporty Cars (and trucks too now)
« Reply #4097 on: Today at 05:04:18 PM »
And although the Jeep might be an offroader to you, the majority of owners notoriously never really use that functionality.  They just like them because they look cool.  And since it meets most of the other criteria you mentioned for the class of vehcile-- driver situated higher than a sedan, seating for 5, decent rear cargo space-- it could be argued that Jeeps remain popular partly because they offer similar functionality as the smaller SUVs and crossovers, but decidedly different aesthetics.
Well, Jeep Wranglers are certainly a unique offering. And "true" Wranglers--not the "bus Jeeps" as my brother calls them, only offer seating for 4 and have practically no cargo space. 

But the truth is that people who buy Jeep Wranglers are motivated by something other than practicality. For many out there... It's a Jeep thing; they wouldn't understand. 

On an objective level, they're pretty terrible vehicles as daily drivers. They're heavy, bumpy, handle terribly, get horrible gas mileage, don't offer anywhere near the creature comforts of other vehicles, and they're notoriously unreliable. Objectively... They're shit. And yes... I own one. It's a Jeep thing. :57:

But I get it. If you're arguing the contrarian play, the Jeep Wrangler suffices. 

utee94

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Re: Sporty Cars (and trucks too now)
« Reply #4098 on: Today at 05:31:20 PM »
Well, Jeep Wranglers are certainly a unique offering. And "true" Wranglers--not the "bus Jeeps" as my brother calls them, only offer seating for 4 and have practically no cargo space.

But the truth is that people who buy Jeep Wranglers are motivated by something other than practicality. For many out there... It's a Jeep thing; they wouldn't understand.

On an objective level, they're pretty terrible vehicles as daily drivers. They're heavy, bumpy, handle terribly, get horrible gas mileage, don't offer anywhere near the creature comforts of other vehicles, and they're notoriously unreliable. Objectively... They're shit. And yes... I own one. It's a Jeep thing. :57:

But I get it. If you're arguing the contrarian play, the Jeep Wrangler suffices.
I'm just pointing out that there can be-- and are-- design choices that are made, that are unrelated to aerodymanics.  So the stereotypical humpy shape of the modern small SUV or crossover isn't necessary.  It's a choice.

If you want to say that modern 4-door Wranglers aren't "real Jeeps" then that's fine, although the proper derogatory term from 2-door Jeepers is "minivan" rather than "bus."  Take it from me, I've heard it plenty from "real" Jeepers whilst out on the trail. ;)

But when you argue that, you're actually reinforcing my point.  The modern 4-door Jeep isn't the same as your vintage 2-door model.  They're not even the same as the modern 2-door models. When antagonists refer to them as "mall crawlers" they're actually just underscoring the point I've already made.  These vehicles aren't being used for offroad adventures, they're being used as small SUVs for around-town errands.  Small SUVs that look way cooler than the alternatives. 

And yes, even a 4-door model of Jeep Wrangler is pretty compact in width and length.  At 188.4" long it's less than an inch longer than an Acura RDX. And it's almost an inch narrower, 73.9 for the Jeep, 74.8 for the RDX.  So, very comparable in length and width.  And despite that, behind the second row seats the Jeep has 31.7 cubic feet of storage, versus the 29.5 cubic feet offered by the Acura RDX.

And another point, the 4-door version dramatically outsells the 2-door version.  About 85% to 15%. And it's true that the shorter wheelbase of a 2-door Jeep is an advantage when performing a variety of offroad tasks, and especially rock-crawling.  But, as I've stated,  the majority of 4-door owners aren't buying them for offroad adventuring. 

And finally, you clearly haven't driven a modern late-model Jeep Wrangler.  I have, I drove a brand new one a couple months ago when a friend bought one.  They're pretty nice.  Not to the level of an Acura RDX I'm sure, but they're a MUCH different driving experience, than the one you currently own (and the almost 10-year-old one I currently own, as well).  They have all sorts of bells and whistles now.  It still has a solid font axle rather than IFS, and it's never going to be a luxury cruiser, but it's also substantially different than it used to be.

The point of all of that being, I classify them as a reasonable competitor or substitute for the humpy crossovers that all look alike, and aesthetics are potentially a deciding factor in the people that choose them over the alternatives.

« Last Edit: Today at 05:43:55 PM by utee94 »

utee94

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Re: Sporty Cars (and trucks too now)
« Reply #4099 on: Today at 05:58:51 PM »
And I acknowlege that's probably more than enough talk about non-sporty cars! :86:

 

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