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Topic: Sporty Cars

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FearlessF

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #700 on: November 12, 2021, 12:55:02 PM »
your normal driver can't get the MX-5 to 75%, can't get the vette to 60%

a top driver can take the MX-5 to 99% and beat the normal driver in the vette easily
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #701 on: November 12, 2021, 12:55:20 PM »
That's all true.

But I still personally believe that someone should be taking a Mazda MX-5, one set up for track use, on the track for a few years before they try to do it with one of these supercar-capability vehicles.

The biggest issue with supercars is that their capability is so extreme that a driver will never learn how to handle what happens on the ragged edge until they're going so fast that they'll bin the damn thing the first time they cross that line.

A driver can turn in faster lap times with a Corvette at 85% than an MX-5 at 99.8%, but I'd say learning to drive that MX-5 at 99.8% is a hell of a lot more fun. And after doing that in an MX-5 for a couple years, they'll know how to drive that Corvette at 99%.

A buddy of mine always said that it's a lot more fun to drive a slow car fast than to drive a fast car slow.
Agreed.  So, if you already learned on a track with a slow car…….

we are people too lol
 
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #702 on: November 12, 2021, 01:17:08 PM »
your normal driver can't get the MX-5 to 75%, can't get the vette to 60%

a top driver can take the MX-5 to 99% and beat the normal driver in the vette easily
True that... Just saying that a less capable car will allow you to "explore the limits" in a much less lethal and scary way than a more capable car.

So whatever your personal ability is, you learn more with the less capable car and can apply it to the more capable car. 

Agreed.  So, if you already learned on a track with a slow car…….

we are people too lol
 
Yeah, I hear you. My track time is mostly motorcycle and go karts, rather than cars, but I've spent some time exploring the limits of traction in general lol.

Honestly most people who have reached an age at which they can afford these type of cars have spent a lot of time with shitty cars earlier in life. They've reached a level of age and wisdom because they spent so long being young and stupid :57:

Cincydawg

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #703 on: November 12, 2021, 01:25:13 PM »
A fairly slow car can be quite entertaining to drive.  I do appreciate torque in top  gear though.

Cincydawg

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #704 on: November 12, 2021, 01:25:56 PM »
your normal driver can't get the MX-5 to 75%, can't get the vette to 60%

a top driver can take the MX-5 to 99% and beat the normal driver in the vette easily
Depending on the course, I doubt this.

FearlessF

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #705 on: November 12, 2021, 01:29:22 PM »
your wife is probably much closer to my normal driver than you are
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FearlessF

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #706 on: November 12, 2021, 01:44:38 PM »
Since its genesis in 1989, the MX-5 Miata has allowed millions to enjoy its unique brand of four-wheel entertainment. The current-generation MX-5, introduced in 2015, has somehow managed to hearken back to a time before high-calorie federal mandates. With the base roadster coming in at a svelte 2390 pounds, not only is it the lightest car on our list but arguably the most fun. 2019 saw the MX-5 receive a handful of upgrades, most notably a revamping of its 2.0-liter Skyactiv engine, which resulted in a sizeable jump from 155 to 181 horsepower. With its zero-to-60 time falling to 5.7 seconds, the Miata is finally as fun in a straight line as it is around corners.

and then the old man's car......

Prospective buyers looking to slip some horsepower past an unwitting spouse need look no further than the 2020 Buick Regal Sportback. Despite its pedestrian-grade exterior, our testing revealed sleeper-grade performance with a front-wheel-drive example reaching 60 mph in just 5.6 seconds. Under the Sportback’s hood lies a 250-hp turbo four. The faux-upscale sedan comes standard with a nine-speed auto for the front-wheel-drive model
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #707 on: November 12, 2021, 01:45:18 PM »
Depending on the course, I doubt this.
I used to do track days on a Suzuki SV650S, a 650cc V-twin bike making about 66 hp. 

Guys riding 600cc supersport-class bikes were on better suspensions, with 100+ hp high-revving I4 engines, on bikes built for racing.

Guys riding 1000cc superbike-class bikes were the cream of the crop, with 160+ hp in some cases, on bikes also built for racing. 

I can't tell you how many times a guy on one of those bikes might blow by me at 140 mph on the front straight as I'm wringing 100-115 out as fast as my bike will let me, and then I'd catch him by turn 4-5 and pass him a few turns later. And skill-wise, I'm what I would describe as "quick", not what I'd describe as "fast". There were guys in my SV650 rider club who would flat out smoke me on the track. The legit race guys would pass me (on the same bike I rode) and be gone in 3 turns.  Hell, I remember the time a kid (and I mean like 13-year-old kid) on an Aprilia RS250 who was a junior racer left me in the dust like I was standing still.

A great driver in an MX-5 will lap faster than a "normal" driver in a Vette any day of the week. 

FearlessF

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #708 on: November 12, 2021, 01:51:22 PM »
yup

I used to swap guys bikes back in the day, cause they said my bike was just faster, then beat them with their slower bike.

1/4 mile, in the turns, whatever

most riders aren't going to scrape foot pegs regardless of bike
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Cincydawg

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #709 on: November 12, 2021, 02:07:20 PM »
I think a Corvette at say COTA would beat an MX-5 handily.  There is too much power, gaining in the turns wouldn't be enough.  This presumes both had some time on the course for familiarization.

And I have a healthy respect for pro drivers, I've seen it in person.

utee94

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #710 on: November 12, 2021, 02:29:13 PM »
I think a Corvette at say COTA would beat an MX-5 handily.  There is too much power, gaining in the turns wouldn't be enough.  This presumes both had some time on the course for familiarization.

And I have a healthy respect for pro drivers, I've seen it in person.

LONG straights at COTA so yeah, I agree with you there.

It's been interesting watching all of the different racing series out there on the same world-class track.  I've seen Formula 1, Indycar, F4, NASCAR, MotoGP, Aussie V8s,  sportscars, Porsche Cup Series, Lamborghini Cup Series, probably a few I'm forgetting.

F1 dominates lap time due to high power in the straights, but also the incredible downforce in the corners.  The motorcycles are faster on the straights but CRAZILY slow on the turns.  Indycars impressed me with their performance, given that they're a spec series that's MUCH cheaper to operate than F1.

FearlessF

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #711 on: November 12, 2021, 02:36:14 PM »
motorscooters don't corner well a tall

hard to get them to drift properly 
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Cincydawg

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #712 on: November 12, 2021, 02:38:44 PM »
As I noted before, I've driven a CTS-V at COTA.  My wife was riding along with the instructor in the car ahead of me.  I was doing all I could to keep up and the driver, she told me, was driving with one hand and talking on the walkie talkie with the other.  I KNOW in the same car any of those drivers would have left me in dust, mostly on the turns and braking.  But I was going a LOT faster in that V than anyone could in an MX-5.

I have a long ingrained idea of being easy on cars so they last longer, it took me a while to realize I should hammer the S out of that Caddy.  They changed the brake pads AND tires after each day's driving.  The tires are around $500 per.  We also did a tight gymkhana course and had significant differences between the students, and they had an instructor visiting who had never driven that course before who beat all of us.  Handily.  But it was a very tight course.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #713 on: November 12, 2021, 02:44:45 PM »
I think a Corvette at say COTA would beat an MX-5 handily.  There is too much power, gaining in the turns wouldn't be enough.  This presumes both had some time on the course for familiarization.

And I have a healthy respect for pro drivers, I've seen it in person.
I suppose we'd have to clarify exactly what is meant by a "normal" driver. 

Here's a comparison between a race driver and a car magazine editor with a lot of performance driving and track time due to his job:

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/features/car-culture/human-vs-racing-driver-how-much-faster/

In this case, same car, same track, the pro lapped 3.35 seconds faster, on a lap pace just under 1:12 (pro) to just over 1:15 (amateur). 

3.35 seconds on a racetrack in a single lap is a massive difference. We're talking "lose track of the guy in about 3 corners" difference.

That difference would probably be exceeded by the capability difference between the MX-5 and the Vette, so if the "normal" driver was a regular track junkie, you're probably right. 

But at the same time, I doubt most Corvette owners, even those who fancy themselves as quick, are going to be as fast as a magazine editor who tests out cars on a regular basis and gets to probably spend more time lapping racetracks than the Vette owner. 

 

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