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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

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MrNubbz

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5810 on: June 24, 2020, 06:36:17 PM »

Every time I say "numbers" you say "so you want the world to shut down forever??", and that's not the case. I have been saying for WEEKS that we need to be reopening and we're not putting that genie back in the bottle. But people need to keep distancing, wearing masks, and not being morons about it.

When I said how long I meant to stack numbers of deaths we are way under where they were projected.I agree with this I just came back from a brewpub and got a growler.They are opening with distance.1st time I've been in a pub since february - There were only 3 in there with masks,myself and two employees
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CWSooner

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5811 on: June 24, 2020, 06:50:54 PM »
It's not houndreds of thousands of deaths not even close.I take that back keep closing businesses and good people will be done playing by the rulz - it will surpass that but it won't be from covid
There are alternatives between herd immunity and total economic collapse.
Opening up with everyone wearing masks is one of them.
But many of the same people--not accusing you, Nubbz--most loudly demanding that we reopen are the same people who ridicule anyone wearing a mask.  I know this because I've got 'em amongst my relatives.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5812 on: June 24, 2020, 06:51:35 PM »
I think this keeps getting stated, but I'm not sure it's true at all.

Remember, the flu ALSO disproportionately kills the old and those with comorbid health factors. So if you want to figure out how this affects "a class of people" relative to the flu, you have to factor that in.

For example, I'm 41 years old, healthy, with no known heart or respiratory issues. My risk of mortality to the flu is extremely low. Much lower than the typical flu mortality rates in the 0.10-0.15% range. Because that 0.10-0.15% range for the flu includes the much more severely affected populations.

I suspect, although I don't have the data to back this up, that COVID-19 is significantly higher mortality for people in the "low-risk" age/health groups than the flu. That doesn't mean it's high, but let's not act like this is "just like the flu".

This thing has already killed 2x as many people in the US than the worst flu season in the last decade, and is rapidly approaching 4x the annual average.

So even with the data point that 42% of deaths were nursing homes, that still leaves more deaths than the worst flu season in the last decade.

If you take the data point that's been bandied about here that ~80% of all deaths are in people over 65, that still leaves ~25,000 deaths. The average flu season over the last decade is 37,000 deaths, and that includes people over 65, who account for between 70 and 85% of flu-related deaths as well.

So if you assume an average of 37,000 flu deaths per year, and the low end of 70% of those deaths are above 65 years old, that leaves 11,100. If you take the worst flu season in the past decade of 61,000 deaths and extract out those over 65, that leaves 18,300.

So at 25,000 deaths to people under 65, we're already around 2.5x worse than a typical flu season, and around 1.5x as bad as the worst flu season in the last decade. And that's in the span of three months with infection rates not going away by any stretch.

This is not the flu!
The virus isn't loving it people who don't give a shit about others taking numbers that have been pulled from irresponsible backsides
Control information - and you control perception. The truth is - COVID19 has not killed even a fraction of people the original projections said it would and falls within the range of normal influenza virus.. MOST of the deaths that did occur (75 - 80%) are people 65 or older. And MOST of the deaths that occur within remaining 20% are people whose health was already severely compromised. For this the economy is shut down, livelihoods are lost, children are dying in hospitals alone because their parents can't visit them, surgeries postponed, domestic violence and suicides are

skyrocketing, and I just heard yesterday on PBS (haven't checked this out or sourced yet) - that 80% of all independently owned restaurants will never open again. I posted the above quote by Dr. Paul - not to dispute the efficacy of wearing masks - but because I trust the man - and it encapsulated my sentiments, for the most part. WHO and the CDC are controlled by big pharma. Bill Gates is now the biggest contributor to WHO - and has massive ties to Fauci and Burkes. No one is talking about vitamin C or D or zinc. It's just about mandating a vaccine for a virus that has yet to be isolated and purified.

"Falls within the range of normal influenza virus"??? In 3 months it's killed twice as many people as the worst influenza of the last decade.

And you can't sit there and say that it didn't reach "projections" when the projections were based upon not social distancing and doing nothing about it. Even then, the models which the White House said that if we did really well it would kill between 100K and 240K. We're already to half of that 240K and it's only been three months, and we're now stopping most of the things we did to keep the numbers down. 

See what I wrote above. The flu also disproportionately kills those above 65. Apparently 70-85% of all flu deaths are in those above 65.

So COVID-19 has currently, after only 3 months, killed ~25K non-elderly. Using the lowest estimate for the flu (70% elderly deaths), that's 2.5x as many young people as are killed by the flu in an average year. Using the higher estimate for the flu (85% elderly deaths), 5x as many young people have been killed by COVID-19 than an average flu season.

We've done things we've never done and will never do for the flu in order to control this, and it's already blown the flu right out of the damn water. 

When I said how long I meant to stack numbers of deaths we are way under where they were projected.I agree with this I just came back from a brewpub and got a growler.They are opening with distance.1st time I've been in a pub since february - There were only 3 in there with masks,myself and two employees
Again, we're under the worst-case projections because we did something about it, not because it wasn't serious. We're currently within the range of projections IF we flattened the curve, but the curve isn't staying flat. So where we'll be in a month is a big question. 

Again, I'm not saying we need to be remain closed. I'm saying this thing didn't go anywhere while we were closed, so we still have to be smart.

MaximumSam

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5813 on: June 24, 2020, 06:55:26 PM »
There are alternatives between herd immunity and total economic collapse.
Opening up with everyone wearing masks is one of them.
But many of the same people--not accusing you, Nubbz--most loudly demanding that we reopen are the same people who ridicule anyone wearing a mask.  I know this because I've got 'em amongst my relatives.
Shoot a lot of them say they won't take the vaccine

CWSooner

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5814 on: June 24, 2020, 06:56:52 PM »
Well they didn’t brag about getting a million people there, contrary to what XiNN says.  The bragged about having a million on line inquiries. And afterwards, many came forward and lamented that they went to get tickets online - but couldn’t.  Lol- outsmarted by TikTok.
Do you have a source for that, HB?  We in Tulsa are unaware of this.
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CWSooner

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5815 on: June 24, 2020, 06:58:56 PM »
Shoot a lot of them say they won't take the vaccine
Yep.  The same ones.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5816 on: June 24, 2020, 07:25:09 PM »
Yep.  The same ones.
That is mind numbing.  I have seen video of people who say they won’t wear one because they think it infringes on their liberty/ but I didn’t know they were ridiculing those who do.  I have seen plenty of the opposite. 

it’s hard to understand.  If there is even a chance it is helping our world, why not?
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5817 on: June 24, 2020, 07:27:00 PM »
Do you have a source for that, HB?  We in Tulsa are unaware of this.
Let me see if I can dig it up because it was from right after like Sunday or Monday. I saw it in several articles that were discussing the whole TickTock charade.  
 
it appears the dork and his team were outsmarted by teens lol
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5818 on: June 24, 2020, 07:36:02 PM »
Let me see if I can dig it up because it was from right after like Sunday or Monday. I saw it in several articles that were discussing the whole TickTock charade. 
 
it appears the dork and his team were outsmarted by teens lol
From what I've read, there was no limit on tickets. You sign up, you get a ticket. Then admittance to the rally would be based on first-come, first-served basis.

So apparently even if a bunch of people reserved tickets and didn't show, it wouldn't stop anyone else with tickets from getting admitted. Yet they didn't show. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5819 on: June 24, 2020, 07:47:56 PM »
God is protecting them, didn't you know?
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MrNubbz

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5820 on: June 24, 2020, 08:00:24 PM »
So COVID-19 has currently, after only 3 months, killed ~25K non-elderly. Using the lowest estimate for the flu (70% elderly deaths), that's 2.5x as many young people as are killed by the flu in an average year. Using the higher estimate for the flu (85% elderly deaths), 5x as many young people have been killed by COVID-19 than an average flu season.

We've done things we've never done and will never do for the flu in order to control this, and it's already blown the flu right out of the damn water.
Again, we're under the worst-case projections because we did something about it, not because it wasn't serious. We're currently within the range of projections IF we flattened the curve, but the curve isn't staying flat. So where we'll be in a month is a big question.

Again, I'm not saying we need to be remain closed. I'm saying this thing didn't go anywhere while we were closed, so we still have to be smart.
“Reconfigured” or purely fabricated? Coronavirus misinformation comes in multiple forms and demands multiple solutions
Misinformation is not a monolith. (“The Pope endorsed Trump” from The Onion is not the same as “The Pope endorsed Trump” from your uncle on Facebook.) A lot of good work the past few years has gone into finding the right ways to classify different types.
First Draft likes to divide it into misinformation (“false content, but the person sharing doesn’t realise that it is false or misleading”), disinformation (“content that is intentionally false and designed to cause harm”), and malinformation (“genuine information that is shared with an intent to cause harm”). Then there’s satire. Good information put in the wrong context. Imposter content. Top-down, bottom-up, financially motivated, politically motivated — it’s all a bit of a taxonomist’s nightmare.
In a new report out this morning, the Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism has tried to do some of that sorting for mis-, dis-, mal-, and whatever other sorts of information are circulating around the coronavirus.
Quote
In this RISJ factsheet, we identify some of the main types, sources, and claims of COVID-19 misinformation seen so far. We analyse a sample of 225 pieces of misinformation rated false or misleading by fact-checkers and published in English between January and the end of March 2020, drawn from a collection of fact-checks maintained by First Draft News.
The report — by Oxonians J. Scott Brennen, Felix M. Simon, Philip N. Howard, and Rasmus Kleis Nielsen — looks at the scale, formats, sources, claims, and responses those various bits of wrongness have had so far. Some highlights:
Fact-checkers are doing what they can, but it’s all uphill. “The number of English-language fact-checks rose more than 900% from January to March. (As fact-checkers have limited resources and cannot check all problematic content, the total volume of different kinds of coronavirus misinformation has almost certainly grown even faster.)”
Most of what’s circulating is “reconfigured” misinformation, not the result of straight-up invention (à la “The Pope endorsed Trump”). Sometimes these mix a set of true and false claims in the same post; sometimes it’s a real image that’s been mislabeled with a COVID-19 connection. This is when “existing and often true information is spun, twisted, recontextualised, or reworked.”
The reconfigured stuff also generated more activity on social than the pure fabrications. And there were no deepfakes, so tamp down that particular moral panic in your mind.
Being famous makes it easier to spread misinformation. (Duh.) “High-level politicians, celebrities, or other prominent public figures produced or spread only 20% of the misinformation in our sample, but that misinformation attracted a large majority of all social media engagements in the sample. While some of these instances involve content posted on social media, 36% of top-down misinformation also includes politicians speaking publicly or to the media.”
Twitter needs to step up its game. “Social media platforms have responded to a majority of the social media posts rated false in our sample. There is nonetheless very significant variation from company to company. While 59% of false posts remain active on Twitter with no direct warning label, the number is 27% for YouTube and 24% for Facebook.”
“As we have shown, there is wide variety in the types of misinformation circulating, the claims made concerning the virus, and motivations behind its production,” the authors write. “In this sense, misinformation about COVID-19 is as diverse as information about it.
“The risk in not recognising the diversity in the landscape of coronavirus misinformation is assuming there could be a single solution to this set of problems. Instead, our findings suggest there will be no silver bullet or inoculation — no ‘cure’ for misinformation about the new coronavirus. Instead, addressing the spread of misinformation about COVID-19 will take a sustained and coordinated effort by independent fact-checkers, independent news media, platform companies, and public authorities to help the public understand and navigate the pandemic.”



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MaximumSam

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5821 on: June 24, 2020, 09:23:00 PM »
Some announcements that the feds will stop funding various testing sites. There seems to be a feeling that the federal government has more or less given up.

847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5822 on: June 24, 2020, 11:11:24 PM »
Well they didn’t brag about getting a million people there, contrary to what XiNN says.  The bragged about having a million on line inquiries. And afterwards, many came forward and lamented that they went to get tickets online - but couldn’t.  Lol- outsmarted by TikTok. 
November will tell all.
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CWSooner

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5823 on: June 24, 2020, 11:11:48 PM »
From what I've read, there was no limit on tickets. You sign up, you get a ticket. Then admittance to the rally would be based on first-come, first-served basis.

So apparently even if a bunch of people reserved tickets and didn't show, it wouldn't stop anyone else with tickets from getting admitted. Yet they didn't show.
That is my understanding too, bwarb.
The BOK Center and the Tulsa PD have stated that no one who wanted to get in was turned away.
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