header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

 (Read 760145 times)

longhorn320

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 9327
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2772 on: April 24, 2020, 12:39:34 PM »
California, so... Yeah... We've been implementing most of these things before the rest of the country.

I don't like the mask. I feel like a doofus wearing it.

That said, I started wearing it well before the mandate because someone else made a ruling it was necessary and I dare not defy her!

Her enforcement methods might be much more draconian!  :57:
I have no problem with voluntary mask wearing

as you probably know Texans can be belligerent and dont like being told they have to do things

we dont think were better then anyone else but we like the idea of being asked not ordered

believe me if this state was a hot spot which it is not Id be the first one to put on a mask

there are only 10 other states that have better virus case numbers based on population then Texas
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 17147
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2773 on: April 24, 2020, 12:40:04 PM »
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17672
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2774 on: April 24, 2020, 12:46:01 PM »
I'm obviously not sure either, as it isn't known at this point, but IF it mutates, a vaccine could still be effectively annually.

I don't think anyone has an effective vaccine against any corona virus.
Yeah, this is why I'm skeptical of the, "we have to wait for the vaccine before we're really done with this" line of thinking.  As far as I know, we've never had an effective vaccine for ANY type of corona virus.  I'm not sure why some people seem so certain we'll develop a vaccine for this one.

Suffice to say, I don't believe we can afford to base ANY public health or public policy decisions on the idea that we'll ever have an effective vaccine.  If it happens, that'll be fantastic and should be viewed as an unexpected good guy far, far down the road.   But there can be no policy made that assumes that we can, or will be able to, wait for a vaccine.

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12186
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2775 on: April 24, 2020, 12:53:03 PM »
as you probably know Texans can be belligerent and dont like being told they have to do things
That reputation does exist, lol ;-) 


Quote
believe me if this state was a hot spot which it is not Id be the first one to put on a mask

there are only 10 other states that have better virus case numbers based on population then Texas
Yeah, Texas has done well so far, which is admirable for being such a populous state with a couple of major metro areas. 

You know who else has done well, despite being a state you'd think WOULDN'T do well based on urban population density? California... As one of the first states to be hit, with huge amounts of international travelers to/from Asia, we're still doing really well on both cases/1M and deaths/1M. I'd venture to say we'd have become a hot spot without the mitigations that we have implemented, mask usage being one of them. 


Big Beef Tacosupreme

  • Player
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 930
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2776 on: April 24, 2020, 12:54:31 PM »
I can't go through 198 pages and read about this stuff, so I hope this hasn't been talked to death.  I have been following this obsessively and my area is on the verge of exploding.

In my neck of the woods people are really pushing the "openupPA" narrative.  I live in county with a lot of blue collar workers, and we are now bursting at the seams with truly desperate people that are out of a job and are now (or soon will be) in terrible financial positions. 

According to the CDC, PA is in the absolute peak of infections at the moment, and we should start to see a decline very soon.  Experts are continuously cautioning that if we open right now, at peak infection levels, it would be disastrous. 

In my area, there has long been a struggle between science and tradition.  I live in an area with a very large proportion of Mennonite/Amish/Fundamentalist Christians, so there has always been tension.  They feel like scientists, "bean counters", and other "intellectuals" have taken away coal, steel, manufacturing, god in schools, etc. etc. etc. 

My county has a fairly large number of college educated people that travel to Philly or the suburbs of Philly for white collar jobs, too.  Most of this group still have their jobs, were in a better financial position to start with anyway, and tend to trust "experts". 

The combination of these two groups is like a powder keg ready to go off at any moment.  It's really scary around here.

Riffraft

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 1096
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2777 on: April 24, 2020, 12:55:14 PM »
Again, your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose...

Let's say you have a known, documented case of the flu and you're in the peak of contagious period. Should you be "allowed" to ride a crowded subway? Maybe sit between a mother bringing her newborn home from the hospital and a wheezing 90-year-old? Are you not infringing on everyone else's right not to be infected by you and essentially swinging your fist right through their faces?

I realize that's extreme compared to the case of not having a known infection of Coronavirus. But in a global pandemic, is there no level to which it might be actually *necessary* to mandate precautions? 

There is a big difference between Typhoid Mary and maybe you "might" be a carrier.  So yes my rights end where I damage you. However I am a firm believer that Tort law (in general) is what should govern these type of things not governmental law. And with that said, I am a pretty extreme libertarian, but I understand the way I think the relationship between the government and the people should be, it isn't that way. However, I will continue to make my case for it to be that way. 

Where my extremism comes into play in your scenario is this. If I am "knowingly" carrying a deadly virus and I go out and expose people to it and someone dies, I should be charged with murder. If some is exposed by me and are damaged, I should be subject to be sued in court to compensate for that damage. The key to this is "knowingly"

Riffraft

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 1096
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2778 on: April 24, 2020, 12:58:53 PM »
there are many cases of physically impaired citizens having certain rights taken away

I cant drive without my glasses for example

this really isnt what the concern is
You don't have a "natural" right to drive on the roads because the government owns the roads therefore the right to drive on the road is governed by the owners of the road (One of the natural rights, the right to property)

Big Beef Tacosupreme

  • Player
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 930
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2779 on: April 24, 2020, 01:00:38 PM »
There is a big difference between Typhoid Mary and maybe you "might" be a carrier.  So yes my rights end where I damage you. However I am a firm believer that Tort law (in general) is what should govern these type of things not governmental law. And with that said, I am a pretty extreme libertarian, but I understand the way I think the relationship between the government and the people should be, it isn't that way. However, I will continue to make my case for it to be that way.

Where my extremism comes into play in your scenario is this. If I am "knowingly" carrying a deadly virus and I go out and expose people to it and someone dies, I should be charged with murder. If some is exposed by me and are damaged, I should be subject to be sued in court to compensate for that damage. The key to this is "knowingly"
I don't think tort law would work in the real world like this.

If I'm desperate enough to be riding a bus when I'm sick, I probably don't have any money.  Sue away.  

Oh you want to arrest me because someone died with the flu after being exposed to me?  Well, it wasn't me, and you can't prove the flu came from me.  Also, I didn't even know I had the flu at the time.  Or I didn't realize how the flu was transmitted.  Or I was on my way home from the pharmacy...

Wait, you were on the bus, too right?  Nevermind, you probably can't afford a lawyer to sue me anyway.



Riffraft

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 1096
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2781 on: April 24, 2020, 01:05:01 PM »
If the concern is that this judicial mandate is an overreach, relative to waiting for the governor or state legislature as a rulemaking body, I can understand having a gripe with the mechanism.

But to pick a mask mandate in general as the hill to die on seems... Excessive.

I don't necessarily disagree about the hill to die on, but I could easily demonstrate how the domino effect has gotten us to a place where we don't protest much of anything the government (at all levels) does.

This is from a person who spent a bit of time in jail in his younger days fighting what I considered great injustice imposed on this country.  Those days are gone for me, I am now just a ridiculous older man tilting a windmills on the internet.  

Riffraft

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 1096
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2782 on: April 24, 2020, 01:08:31 PM »
I don't think tort law would work in the real world like this.

If I'm desperate enough to be riding a bus when I'm sick, I probably don't have any money.  Sue away. 

Oh you want to arrest me because someone died with the flu after being exposed to me?  Well, it wasn't me, and you can't prove the flu came from me.  Also, I didn't even know I had the flu at the time.  Or I didn't realize how the flu was transmitted.  Or I was on my way home from the pharmacy...

Wait, you were on the bus, too right?  Nevermind, you probably can't afford a lawyer to sue me anyway.


Did you not read "knowingly"?

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71536
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2783 on: April 24, 2020, 01:12:08 PM »
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/covid-19-vaccine-protects-monkeys-new-coronavirus-chinese-biotech-reports

For the first time, one of the many COVID-19 vaccines in development has protected an animal, rhesus macaques, from infection by the new coronavirus, scientists report. The vaccine, an old-fashioned formulation consisting of a chemically inactivated version of the virus, produced no obvious side effects in the monkeys, and human trials began on 16 April.

Researchers from Sinovac Biotech, a privately held Beijing-based company, gave two different doses of their COVID-19 vaccine to a total of eight rhesus macaque monkeys. Three weeks later, the group introduced SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, into the monkeys’ lungs through tubes down their tracheas, and none developed a full-blown infection.


847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25208
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2784 on: April 24, 2020, 01:18:43 PM »
I just read about the parks in Illinois that will be opened up.

I also just read that hunting is still not allowed. Hmm.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

longhorn320

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 9327
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2785 on: April 24, 2020, 01:18:50 PM »
That reputation does exist, lol ;-)

Yeah, Texas has done well so far, which is admirable for being such a populous state with a couple of major metro areas.

You know who else has done well, despite being a state you'd think WOULDN'T do well based on urban population density? California... As one of the first states to be hit, with huge amounts of international travelers to/from Asia, we're still doing really well on both cases/1M and deaths/1M. I'd venture to say we'd have become a hot spot without the mitigations that we have implemented, mask usage being one of them.


I believe the main reason California has done very well is the fact that they had the virus at least 4 months before realized

they have herd immunity

I think more antibody testing will support this view
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.