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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

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utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #952 on: April 01, 2020, 07:29:33 PM »
It'll be a pillow fight,Everbody will be too weak and have to stop and get their breath - except evidently you,CD and maybe 94,Fearless and I will be testing our new schooners
Mmmmmmm schooners.



MrNubbz

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #953 on: April 01, 2020, 07:30:38 PM »
"It's different this time" is possibly the scariest phrase in human history.
I dunno WW I and the Spanish flu just off the top of my head
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

Mdot21

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #954 on: April 01, 2020, 07:30:58 PM »
Hell we'll do that ourselves
True lol. We’ve been doing that ourselves consistently over the last 30 years. 

847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #955 on: April 01, 2020, 07:36:36 PM »
True lol. We’ve been doing that ourselves consistently over the last 30 years.
Snowflakes, move aside and resume your positions in your safe spaces.

We got this. 

Hopefully you'll appreciate it.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #956 on: April 01, 2020, 07:38:21 PM »
I dunno WW I and the Spanish flu just off the top of my head
I was thinking of the dot com boom of the late 90s and the mortgage boom of the mid-2000s as options... Financial bubbles are often propped up by people who claim "it's different this time" and have plausible-sounding rationale for why it's actually different this time... 

The human capability for self-deception is something to behold...

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #957 on: April 01, 2020, 07:47:48 PM »
Looking at the numbers across the globe...

Italy appears to have achieved linearity WRT both daily new cases and deaths. However, it's questionable whether any of these are decreasing, although Mar 29-31 are showing lower new case rates than previous [not yet reflected in death rates but I expect a lag there].

Spain showing linearity in daily new cases and deaths. Also no indication of decrease in either, just linear rather than exponential growth.

South Korea (one of the "best" responses, or so is believed) showing very low relative new case numbers compared to peak new infection rates. Deaths are not worth tracking because the sample size is SO low that the difference between 3 daily deaths and 10 looks HUGE on a bar graph but if the day after is 4, it doesn't mean much.

Norway and Sweden are an interesting case. Norway is following the lockdown/social distancing protocols. Sweden announced they're not going to do that. So it's a good comparison. Norway has linearity on new infections, and so far death rates are too minimal to draw any trends. Sweden doesn't show a HUGE exponential trend on new infections, but it's definitely non-linear. Death rates in Sweden look exponential, though. So both countries might be interesting to watch to see how different policies are affecting the results.

As for the US? With still some reporting to go today, we've hit new records for daily new infections and daily deaths. So we're not approaching linearity yet, nor "flattening the curve" which would require seeing some decreases in daily case rates.

utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #958 on: April 01, 2020, 07:58:23 PM »
The "daily new cases" data is pretty irrelevant,at least here in the USA.

I believe we're currently just barely dipping our toe into testing into a much, much larger population of already existing infections.  So basically, all an increasing rate on "confirmed cases" tells us, is that our testing is increasing overall.  The exponential growth we're seeing is nothing more than an artifact of increasing testing rates around the country, as more and more testing facilities come online and tests are more widely available around the country.

Note, that doesn't mean I don't think the growth rate of infection of the virus itself isn't exponential, I just don't believe our testing has any way of determining that.  And it likely never will, in this country, for this particular virus.

So for me, the only real statistic worth tracking, is death rate.  When that begins flattening out, we'll know we're getting somewhere.  The rate of increase (or even decrease) of "confirmed cases" is meaningless if it doesn't correlate to the deltas in the death rate.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #959 on: April 01, 2020, 08:05:21 PM »
The "daily new cases" data is pretty irrelevant,at least here in the USA.

I believe we're currently testing into a much, much larger population of already existing infections.  Basically all an increasing rate on "confirmed cases" tells us, is that our testing is increasing overall.  The exponential growth we're seeing is an artifact of increasing testing rates around the country, as more and more testing facilities come online and tests are more widely available around the country.

So for me, the only real statistic worth tracking, is death rate.  When that begins flattening out, we'll know we're getting somewhere.  The rate of increase (or even decrease) of "confirmed cases" is meaningless if it doesn't correlate to the deltas in the death rate.

Agreed. And one aspect of the modulation of the case rate, where we go from strongly exponential to much more weakly exponential, appears to be limits in NY. They've been only testing ~20K cases per day over the last week+, which suggests that their case rate can't go strongly exponential if their test capability isn't ramping exponentially. I think a lot of the exponential areas are other parts of the country where they're ramping testing rates.

Death rates are somewhat noisy when the numbers are small, but I think we've moved well beyond that. So I agree that it's more important now to be looking at death rates rather than confirmed cases. 

bayareabadger

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #960 on: April 01, 2020, 08:27:22 PM »
Highly doubt the CCP would use nukes. First of all their arsenal isn’t that big. They are thought to have 250-300 nuclear warheads. The US has what- like 7,000? The US is still to this day the only country that has ever used nuclear weapons in war. Does China really want to risk getting wiped out with nukes? I don’t think so. We’ve got a shitload more of them than they do.

A desperate authoritarian backed into a corner? They might not care. 

And even if we have more, that still implies being willing to risk the potential of millions of people incinerated. And we won't if not provoked by something somewhat real. And this mostly ain't it. 

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #961 on: April 01, 2020, 08:30:05 PM »
A desperate authoritarian backed into a corner? They might not care.
Wait, are we still talking about China?

bayareabadger

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #962 on: April 01, 2020, 08:31:03 PM »
This is different.
In what sense would it be different?

I'm just saying, anything that starts with, that military is more backward and toppling them on their turf will be easy sound like textbook overconfidence. 

utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #963 on: April 01, 2020, 08:31:58 PM »
Agreed. And one aspect of the modulation of the case rate, where we go from strongly exponential to much more weakly exponential, appears to be limits in NY. They've been only testing ~20K cases per day over the last week+, which suggests that their case rate can't go strongly exponential if their test capability isn't ramping exponentially. I think a lot of the exponential areas are other parts of the country where they're ramping testing rates.

Death rates are somewhat noisy when the numbers are small, but I think we've moved well beyond that. So I agree that it's more important now to be looking at death rates rather than confirmed cases.
For sure, the noise in the system is diminishing, and the real data is beginning to roll in.

I'll just add a blanket "Unfortunately" to all of this because while I discuss the analytics dispassionately, I understand the deaths are all real people and loved ones.  Some of us are going to lose someone we know, probably well, and it's really possible we'll lose loved ones.  That all sucks really really badly.

And I suspect that, sooner rather than later, we as a nation are going to have to make a decision that might further jeopardize those loves ones in the most at-risk groups.  But realistically, this nation isn't built for prolonged periods of inactivity.  It's going to get wild, and dangerous, if we don't relieve the pressure, likely sooner than we'd prefer.



bayareabadger

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #964 on: April 01, 2020, 08:40:48 PM »
For sure, the noise in the system is diminishing, and the real data is beginning to roll in.

I'll just add a blanket "Unfortunately" to all of this because while I discuss the analytics dispassionately, I understand the deaths are all real people and loved ones.  Some of us are going to lose someone we know, probably well, and it's really possible we'll lose loved ones.  That all sucks really really badly.

And I suspect that, sooner rather than later, we as a nation are going to have to make a decision that might further jeopardize those loves ones in the most at-risk groups.  But realistically, this nation isn't built for prolonged periods of inactivity.  It's going to get wild, and dangerous, if we don't relieve the pressure, likely sooner than we'd prefer.



I can't recall if it was on here, but someone suggested the big test is gonna be when we can start testing people to see if they have antibodies (assuming you can't catch it twice). Once we start getting people on the other side, perhaps they can start getting after it. 

It would also be nice so we can find the truth of folks saying "I felt bad in December, must've been it."

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #965 on: April 01, 2020, 08:46:14 PM »
For sure, the noise in the system is diminishing, and the real data is beginning to roll in.

I'll just add a blanket "Unfortunately" to all of this because while I discuss the analytics dispassionately, I understand the deaths are all real people and loved ones.  Some of us are going to lose someone we know, probably well, and it's really possible we'll lose loved ones.  That all sucks really really badly.

And I suspect that, sooner rather than later, we as a nation are going to have to make a decision that might further jeopardize those loves ones in the most at-risk groups.  But realistically, this nation isn't built for prolonged periods of inactivity.  It's going to get wild, and dangerous, if we don't relieve the pressure, likely sooner than we'd prefer.
Yeah... I'm a data geek, so this is a fascinating thing to analyze. 

But... Yeah. If either of my parents got it, their prognosis would be dire. If my father-in-law got it, I don't know how comorbid Szogren's Syndrome is, but I don't want to find out. 

When I got the kids last Friday I found out they were strolling around Balboa Island with their grandparents... When I sent them back this morning I had to tell their mom "uhh, don't freakin' do that..." I'm actually less worried about the kids, or even them bringing something to my wife and I. We're in age/health cohorts that aren't at high risk. But I can't imagine my son--who idolizes my ex's dad--having to wonder if he passes whether he infected his grandpa.

I don't see this slowing down anytime soon...

 

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