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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #7448 on: July 28, 2020, 11:48:08 PM »
By the way- this has nothing to do with sides. It is about freedom of expression without fear of being persecuted or ridiculed.

what you are now known for is, since you can’t sensor other opinions you have to insult others.

I can play by your rules- it seems it is all you know. 
You brought up sides when you said "take a poll of people on this site".

I don't want to censor anyone's opinions - that's unAmerian.  Don't you know that?  I'm not sure who I've insulted, either.  I've called irrational ideas irrational, by definition.  And I've laughed at how obtuse you're being on this one point about social media sites taking down miracle tonic posts.  

I'm not insulting you when I say you're wrong.  Nor do I expect you to tiptoe anywhere near the reality of the thing.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

longhorn320

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #7449 on: July 29, 2020, 12:01:15 AM »
You brought up sides when you said "take a poll of people on this site".

I don't want to censor anyone's opinions - that's unAmerian.  Don't you know that?  I'm not sure who I've insulted, either.  I've called irrational ideas irrational, by definition.  And I've laughed at how obtuse you're being on this one point about social media sites taking down miracle tonic posts. 

I'm not insulting you when I say you're wrong.  Nor do I expect you to tiptoe anywhere near the reality of the thing. 
Perhaps the next time you disagree with someone you put forth the reasons you disagree instead of just making some off the wall comment

nobody likes a smart ass but most on here will at least listen to you if you showed a little more courtesy 

If I disagree with you Im going to tell you why not just that youre wrong so we can have a conversation

you might find that there are areas where there is agreement
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

CWSooner

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #7450 on: July 29, 2020, 01:03:36 AM »
Regardless there were other credible doctors in that video. 

you formed an opinion as you should, that is your right.  But that’s the point.

Google which owns YouTube, Twitter and Facebook do not have the right to censor that video off of the Internet which is exactly what they have now done. 

If you have the power of censorship, and actively exercise it  which they have clearly been doing brazenly for months and months now, then you need to be open to liability.
HB: They do have the right, just like the Cleveland Plain Dealer has a right not to print your letter to the editor.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 01:09:56 AM by CWSooner »
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CWSooner

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #7451 on: July 29, 2020, 01:09:27 AM »
You brought up sides when you said "take a poll of people on this site".

I don't want to censor anyone's opinions - that's unAmerian.  Don't you know that?  I'm not sure who I've insulted, either.  I've called irrational ideas irrational, by definition.  And I've laughed at how obtuse you're being on this one point about social media sites taking down miracle tonic posts. 

I'm not insulting you when I say you're wrong.  Nor do I expect you to tiptoe anywhere near the reality of the thing.
I don't even know what this particular fight is about, but this gets back to what I tried to tell you some time ago.  There is such a thing as courtesy.  Good manners.  They help smooth rough edges.  When we are communicating in text, the smile, the wink of an eye, the hand gestures, they're all gone.  All we have is the words.  And you seem to go out of your way to make yours as abrasive as possible.

When people take offense, and you didn't mean to offend, it's often because to didn't bother to use simple courtesy.

I'm just lookin' out for you here, Afro!  You've got lots of good ideas, lots of interesting ideas, and some really boneheaded/ignorant ideas.  But we often don't get to discuss the ideas, because we're reacting to the way you put them across instead.

P.S. Saying that you're right and we're all wrong is part of the problem.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #7452 on: July 29, 2020, 06:02:31 AM »
HB: They do have the right, just like the Cleveland Plain Dealer has a right not to print your letter to the editor.
Exactly.  The Cleveland Plain Dealer is subject to liability because they control content. 

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #7453 on: July 29, 2020, 08:11:10 AM »
Exactly.  The Cleveland Plain Dealer is subject to liability because they control content.


Exactly. The Cleveland Plain Dealer is not covered by the Section 230 carve out put in place for online content providers. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #7454 on: July 29, 2020, 08:55:18 AM »
Okay fact checkers and censors, just because a doctor has said cysts are caused by sex with demons in the patient’s dreams, pharmaceutical companies are illegally using alien DNA in their medicine, and vaccines are designed to inoculate people from religion, doesn’t mean the doctor lacks credibility on coronavirus treatments and the effectiveness of masks.

bayareabadger

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #7455 on: July 29, 2020, 08:56:11 AM »
Exactly.  The Cleveland Plain Dealer is subject to liability because they control content.


OK. Let's tease this out.

The Cleveland Plain Dealer also has comments. Those comments are moderated to a certain degree. If what you are saying is accurate, then a person could sue the outlet over the content of the comment section. 

The same could happen on the Wall Street Journal, Fox News, this here website. But these things do not happen. They do not happen because the 230 protections are broad and because an outlet can be a publisher of its own content, while also providing an "interactive computer service" to third-party speakers. 

Now there's sort of another interesting question. Even if one imagined Facebook/Google/YouTube was liable for all this stuff, what would be the positive endgame? One couldn't sue for suppression of ideas. That's not a thing. You could sue for other stuff being on there, which would mostly just mean a great contraction of said platforms to something they 
could cleanly monitor. Is that a positive endgame? It just means big tech has a tighter grip on speech, which there is less of. 

Again, I don't like what they're doing because it mostly just creates a Streisand Effect and is simply badly done. But there's no litmus test of political balance that doesn't open up a host of other issues. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #7456 on: July 29, 2020, 10:31:13 AM »

P.S. Saying that you're right and we're all wrong is part of the problem.
I can't help but think this is tied to the "being courteous" idea.  It's not about 'I'm right and you're wrong,' it's about what IS.  

Many here are seemingly obsessed with the WHO of the thing and not the WHAT.  It's definitely a larger divide between us than happy-nice teddy bear speech.  

Let's go with the doctor with the miracle tonic.  If the doc is worth anything, they'll know (objectively) that evidence and time will yield the truth, not animated claims on a shaky camera.  But I'm afraid even that is something that will be debated here.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Honestbuckeye

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #7457 on: July 29, 2020, 10:49:36 AM »
OK. Let's tease this out.

The Cleveland Plain Dealer also has comments. Those comments are moderated to a certain degree. If what you are saying is accurate, then a person could sue the outlet over the content of the comment section.

The same could happen on the Wall Street Journal, Fox News, this here website. But these things do not happen. They do not happen because the 230 protections are broad and because an outlet can be a publisher of its own content, while also providing an "interactive computer service" to third-party speakers.

Now there's sort of another interesting question. Even if one imagined Facebook/Google/YouTube was liable for all this stuff, what would be the positive endgame? One couldn't sue for suppression of ideas. That's not a thing. You could sue for other stuff being on there, which would mostly just mean a great contraction of said platforms to something they
could cleanly monitor. Is that a positive endgame? It just means big tech has a tighter grip on speech, which there is less of.

Again, I don't like what they're doing because it mostly just creates a Streisand Effect and is simply badly done. But there's no litmus test of political balance that doesn't open up a host of other issues.

230 does not protect Cleveland Zplain Desler, Fox News-or WSJ. 

it protects the tech giants who host content on their platform- precisely because they can’t control all content. But they are over hiding behind that protection to promote a political agenda and censoring opposing views- extremely reasonable and often majority supported rules. That is precisely what they committed not to do.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #7458 on: July 29, 2020, 11:00:42 AM »
I can't help but think this is tied to the "being courteous" idea.  It's not about 'I'm right and you're wrong,' it's about what IS. 

Many here are seemingly obsessed with the WHO of the thing and not the WHAT.  It's definitely a larger divide between us than happy-nice teddy bear speech. 

Let's go with the doctor with the miracle tonic.  If the doc is worth anything, they'll know (objectively) that evidence and time will yield the truth, not animated claims on a shaky camera.  But I'm afraid even that is something that will be debated here. 
Well there IS a great debate going on in the medical community. 
plenty of clinical studies showing both positive and neutral results for this medicine.  I heard two very respected doctors yesterday singing its praises and angry because their view of a political narrative preventing them from getting it for their patients. 
so science does not agree.  Who has the right to not only make a determination, but to impose that on everyone else. 
not you.  Not any politician.  Not google or Facebook.

in an election year, the party trying to gain power always wants to portray the worst, and the party in power the best.  Nothing new there.

But it is going to far when it hides medical hope and possibilities from citizens.

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #7459 on: July 29, 2020, 11:03:43 AM »
The preponderence of clinical data does not support use of chlorohydroxyquine for treatment or prevention of COVID.

Each "side" (and it's unfortunate we have "sides") can cherry pick data and results, but if you review it ALL, the story if far from compelling, and the positive results that exist are not very impressive, to me.

There should be no side but TRUTH, to the best of our ability to assess it, and I'll leave that to the doctors, aside from forming my personal opinion at this point.


longhorn320

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #7460 on: July 29, 2020, 11:05:01 AM »
I can't help but think this is tied to the "being courteous" idea.  It's not about 'I'm right and you're wrong,' it's about what IS. 

Many here are seemingly obsessed with the WHO of the thing and not the WHAT.  It's definitely a larger divide between us than happy-nice teddy bear speech. 

Let's go with the doctor with the miracle tonic.  If the doc is worth anything, they'll know (objectively) that evidence and time will yield the truth, not animated claims on a shaky camera.  But I'm afraid even that is something that will be debated here. 
If I think Ive come up with something that will save lives Im not just gonna let time pass
Im gonna scream it to all who can hear me

This doctor thinks there is an agenda against this drug and is trying to alert the public that it can save lives

If she is full of crap I still want to know more about the possibility of saving lives
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

CWSooner

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #7461 on: July 29, 2020, 11:20:56 AM »
I can't help but think this is tied to the "being courteous" idea.  It's not about 'I'm right and you're wrong,' it's about what IS. 

Many here are seemingly obsessed with the WHO of the thing and not the WHAT.  It's definitely a larger divide between us than happy-nice teddy bear speech. 

Let's go with the doctor with the miracle tonic.  If the doc is worth anything, they'll know (objectively) that evidence and time will yield the truth, not animated claims on a shaky camera.  But I'm afraid even that is something that will be debated here.
You missed my point, as you often do.  Maybe that's my fault.  Communication is a two-way street.
The "right and wrong" I mentioned was not about the facts of the COVID-19 pandemic, but about the idea that good manners would help you get your arguments across.  You have previously rejected the notion that good manners matter.  Several posters here have told you that you have bad manners, that you are discourteous.  You say that that doesn't matter.
It is that conflict of visions that prompted my point about you asserting that you are right and everybody else is wrong.
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