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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

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NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6958 on: July 17, 2020, 06:56:18 AM »
I don't know about the protests, I'm really not seeing much indication that this is spreading outside in the open air. 

Serious? These people were shoulder to shoulder in the street for hours. If they guy next to you had the virus and you were breathing the air he was exhaling, there is a good chance you got the virus there. The fact that the media and some in the government are trying to say that you can't go to an outdoor sporting event because of Covid are also saying that gathering in large mobs, packed together in the street did NOT spread the virus. Do you see the hypocrisy here? 

NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6959 on: July 17, 2020, 07:03:42 AM »
I don't know about that - the science is uncertain, though there is certainly evidence that mask wearing reduced transmission and can be very helpful (with other things).  The other part is that masks are a low cost and low effort tool, so the downside is minimal while the upside could be extremely high. 
There are supposedly 2 reasons to wear a mask. 1.) To protect yourself from catching the virus and 2.) to keep from spreading it.

As for the first reason, the virus itself is so small (forgive me as I don't have the actual size in front of me at the moment) that simply wearing a cloth or paper mask is like trying to put up a split rail fence to keep out mosquitoes.  It simply does not work.

In regards to reason number 2, it MAY help to contain water droplets that COULD be expelled by someone when they cough for sneeze as that would be the primary way to spread the virus in a public setting (other than directly in someone's face for an extended period of time, something like 15 mins, or licking toilet seats). However, if a person covers their mouth when they cough or their nose when they sneeze (you know, like normal polite people have done for hundreds of years), where are these water droplets going? Into the person's arm or hand that they use to cover with.

That being said, my advice is that if you are showing symptoms, STAY HOME (like we have done for centuries). Don't be out and about. If you come across someone that is showing symptoms, walk away from them (like I have ALWAYS done).

But if you feel more comfortable wearing a mask, by all means wear it. I don't fault anyone for wanting to protect themselves. If you are someone that is potentially more at risk from the virus (have other health issues or are elderly) I would avoid areas with a large number of people. 

utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6960 on: July 17, 2020, 07:27:27 AM »
Serious? These people were shoulder to shoulder in the street for hours. If they guy next to you had the virus and you were breathing the air he was exhaling, there is a good chance you got the virus there. The fact that the media and some in the government are trying to say that you can't go to an outdoor sporting event because of Covid are also saying that gathering in large mobs, packed together in the street did NOT spread the virus. Do you see the hypocrisy here?

Yes, I see the hypocrisy.  No, I don't think that outdoor transmission is much of a thing.  There were many large cities with huge protests-- like NYC-- that did not see an uptick in cases/hospitalizations/deaths corresponding to the timeline of the protests.

I don't think the football stadiums themselves are much of a concern for spread.  I do think that the bathroom facilities, luxury suites with recirculated air, indoor elevators and escalators that carry tens of thousands to their seats in a stadium like UT-Austin-- those are all very likely zones to spread the infection.

NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6961 on: July 17, 2020, 07:32:58 AM »
Yes, I see the hypocrisy.  No, I don't think that outdoor transmission is much of a thing.  There were many large cities with huge protests-- like NYC-- that did not see an uptick in cases/hospitalizations/deaths corresponding to the timeline of the protests.

I don't think the football stadiums themselves are much of a concern for spread.  I do think that the bathroom facilities, luxury suites with recirculated air, indoor elevators and escalators that carry tens of thousands to their seats in a stadium like UT-Austin-- those are all very likely zones to spread the infection.

I agree that the areas of spread are usually going to be confined spaces with circulated air. Most of the areas where the infection has spread has done so where people have been primarily indoors. The hot spots right now are Florida, Texas and Arizona. All of these states are currently very warm and I would bet that a majority of people are staying inside in the AC.

My brother lives in the Tampa area and he always says that they essentially trade summer for winter. While we stay indoors all winter, they stay indoors all summer. Having lived briefly in San Antonio years ago, I stayed inside as much as possible during the heat of the day. 

utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6962 on: July 17, 2020, 07:38:50 AM »
I personally like the heat, and on weekends I'm outdoors all day in the summer.  But I'm certainly not running or cycling after maybe 11 AM from June 15th thru September 10th...

Also, I have a boat and a swimming pool, so my outdoor activities in the summer are generally water-related... ;)

MaximumSam

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6963 on: July 17, 2020, 08:06:39 AM »
There are supposedly 2 reasons to wear a mask. 1.) To protect yourself from catching the virus and 2.) to keep from spreading it.

As for the first reason, the virus itself is so small (forgive me as I don't have the actual size in front of me at the moment) that simply wearing a cloth or paper mask is like trying to put up a split rail fence to keep out mosquitoes.  It simply does not work.

In regards to reason number 2, it MAY help to contain water droplets that COULD be expelled by someone when they cough for sneeze as that would be the primary way to spread the virus in a public setting (other than directly in someone's face for an extended period of time, something like 15 mins, or licking toilet seats). However, if a person covers their mouth when they cough or their nose when they sneeze (you know, like normal polite people have done for hundreds of years), where are these water droplets going? Into the person's arm or hand that they use to cover with.

That being said, my advice is that if you are showing symptoms, STAY HOME (like we have done for centuries). Don't be out and about. If you come across someone that is showing symptoms, walk away from them (like I have ALWAYS done).

But if you feel more comfortable wearing a mask, by all means wear it. I don't fault anyone for wanting to protect themselves. If you are someone that is potentially more at risk from the virus (have other health issues or are elderly) I would avoid areas with a large number of people.

Yes, a mask doesn't filter a a virus particle.  However, no one gets sick from on virus particle, either.  Like I said, the science is uncertain but from observational studies there appears to be a benefit to wearing masks, and certainly the better mask the better the benefit.  It could be an additional tool in the toolbox to reduce spread, so it has less to do with personal feelings of comfort and more to do with how much someone is willing to do so we can have a healthy and free society. Everyone's comfort with that varies - some are willing to do nothing and some are willing to do a lot.

847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6964 on: July 17, 2020, 08:06:54 AM »
I agree with everything you say here. My wife and daughter traveled to Galena, Illinois a few days ago. It is a small tourist town, once the home to U.S. Grant. Lots of little shops for women. My wife and daughter are religious about wearing masks. My daughter is a PT student, does clinicals, wears one all day, and is acclimated to it. I am not as acclimated but wear one when I go into a store.

They came back from Galena, and said, "Everyone is wearing a mask. Even out on the street."

I checked and found that Illinois is one of the states with a mask requirement if 6' social distance cannot be maintained. They felt so much more comfortable in Galena that my daughter thought maybe she should look for work in Illinois after she graduates.

Once it becomes a norm by many, more will follow, in part the result of the requirement, but in part because people tend to not want to appear out-of-place. When mask wearers make non-mask wearers feel out-of-place and discourteous by their sheer numbers, more will come around. Most people do not want to be seen as discourteous. We still have people being ticketed for seatbelt violations. At first that standard was not well-respected. There will always be a few violators. And many of those will come around if they are ticketed.

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Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6965 on: July 17, 2020, 08:33:23 AM »
I did some work on filtration "back in the day".  The idea that a filter can only filter by "interception", e.g., the holes are smaller than the particulate, is not really correct.  That is one means of filtration.

And of course the contagion is spread by droplets infected with virus, not viral entities themselves.  Droplets, even microdroplets, can be filtered by a simple mask.  If you sneeze, the volume of droplets you expel around you is significantly reduced by any face covering.

You don't need a respirator for this, and if you've ever worn a properly fitted respirator you understand they are difficult to breathe if doing more than sitting.

Look at the numbers in Asian countries where mask wearing is a given, they are MUCH lower than ours.

Entropy

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6966 on: July 17, 2020, 08:48:18 AM »
I don't know about the protests, I'm really not seeing much indication that this is spreading outside in the open air. 

Youuthful stupidity, for sure.

And also, on the business openings and most specifically the bar reopenings-- I just don't think we had any idea how quickly it would spread under those circumstances.  Arguably, we could have and should have known, or could have guessed, but the hypothesis had not been tested with other variables frozen and isolated-- the actual experiment just hadn't been run yet.

Now, it has.
4th of July parties seem to be spark that is pushing up numbers in our neighborhood and school district.  Not exclusively, but it feels like a new case comes with "...and they were at a 4th of July party".    A lot of HS and college age kids spreading it as well.

Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6967 on: July 17, 2020, 09:01:29 AM »
Georgia new case count MAY be leveling off, albeit at a high level, hospital bed usage is still going higher, deaths remain fairly low, edging up now.

847badgerfan

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U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6969 on: July 17, 2020, 10:15:48 AM »
4th of July parties seem to be spark that is pushing up numbers in our neighborhood and school district.  Not exclusively, but it feels like a new case comes with "...and they were at a 4th of July party".    A lot of HS and college age kids spreading it as well.

I think this is where people are starting to conflate "outdoor spread" with "kids being WAY too close to one another spread."  Since so many indoor venues are closed, of course the kids are having to party outdoors quite a bit.  Plus, it's summer, and that's what kids do anyway.  But I could see quite a bit of the spread coming more from sharing drinks, sharing beer bongs, sharing food, not washing hands, touching faces, touching every other body part, making out, hooking up-- those are all quite a bit closer activities, than we had for OUR 4th of July get-together, where we had eight people at my house, family and friends, hanging out on the back patio or in the pool, but always several feet from one another, and not sharing food/drink/containers/etc.  And of course folks only going indoors to use the bathroom.

We did the same for Mother's day, Father's Day, and Memorial Day.  No COVID spread, no issues at all.

But last weekend out on the lake, I saw dozens of boats with 9-14 HS/college/early 20s kids packed onto those boats, no masks, partying, drinking beer, bonging beer, all up in each others' business touching and stuff-- yeah, that's the kind of outdoor activity that could certainly lead to the spread.  But that's a lot more than just standing next to one another.

GopherRock

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6970 on: July 17, 2020, 10:39:51 AM »
^Also, there wasn't a case surge in mid-June in Minnesota despite the MDH pushing hard to test (and arguably over-sampling) areas that were hit hard by rioting.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-pbc-health-director-covid-children-20200714-xcdall2tsrd4riim2nwokvmsxm-story.html

So much for re-opening schools for full-time, in-person instruction. As of last Friday, 31% of U18s tested in Florida are coming up positive. 

I don't know the distribution of these tests over time, but when you have a sample size of 54,000 it's much easier to filter out noise. 

bwarbiany

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6971 on: July 17, 2020, 10:46:51 AM »
So much for re-opening schools for full-time, in-person instruction. As of last Friday, 31% of U18s tested in Florida are coming up positive.
Good. They already have herd immunity in the U18 age group. Ship those little bastards to school.

 

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