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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
(Read 751240 times)

Honestbuckeye · « **Reply #5880 on:** June 25, 2020, 11:06:58 PM »

Quote from: bwarbiany on June 25, 2020, 10:28:33 PM

Hot spots? Flare ups?

We just passed the largest single day case count nationally, ever.

This isn't isolated hot spots or flare ups.

I have been involved with numerous situations over the last few days of employees who have tested positive. While they are mostly working from home- many if not most of them are wearing masks and being careful. They are all young35 or less. Most are asymptomatic and/ or fine with minor symptoms.

as long as the death rate holds steady - I view thi as inevitable. Closing things down would only help marginally, and would be fatal economically

longhorn320 · « **Reply #5881 on:** June 25, 2020, 11:09:55 PM »

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 25, 2020, 11:06:58 PM

I have been involved with numerous situations over the last few days of employees who have tested positive. While they are mostly working from home- many if not most of them are wearing masks and being careful. They are all young35 or less. Most are asymptomatic and/ or fine with minor symptoms.

as long as the death rate holds steady - I view thi as inevitable. Closing things down would only help marginally, and would be fatal economically

thats kinda my view also

if the death rate holds where it is a high case rate isnt the worst thing on earth

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #5882 on:** June 26, 2020, 12:18:55 AM »

Arizona ICU bed % usage.....the gray is running out.

Hawkinole · « **Reply #5883 on:** June 26, 2020, 01:04:03 AM »

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 26, 2020, 12:18:55 AM

Arizona ICU bed % usage.....the gray is running out.

Mom and dad called today. Still safe in Tucson. Mostly they stay at home. Mom has beautiful white teeth, mostly thanks to my brother in the Midwest who is a dentist. But she ventured into a dental office in Tucson for cleaning. If you are American and elderly, stay home, even if your 1,500 miles away family cannot see you. Stay home! We will never see you if you keep going out! You people who don't stay home wear your mask when in close quarters with others.
Thank you.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #5884 on:** June 26, 2020, 08:21:07 AM »

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/06/26/883477681/this-coronavirus-doesnt-change-quickly-and-thats-good-news-for-vaccine-makers

Scientists are monitoring the virus that causes COVID-19 for genetic changes that could make a vaccine ineffective. But so far, they're not seeing any.

"There's nothing alarming about the way the coronavirus is mutating or the speed at which it's mutating," says Emma Hodcroft, a molecular epidemiologist at the University of Basel in Switzerland. "We don't think this will be a problem [for vaccines] in the short term."

betarhoalphadelta · « **Reply #5885 on:** June 26, 2020, 10:45:40 AM »

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 25, 2020, 11:06:58 PM

I have been involved with numerous situations over the last few days of employees who have tested positive. While they are mostly working from home- many if not most of them are wearing masks and being careful. They are all young35 or less. Most are asymptomatic and/ or fine with minor symptoms.

as long as the death rate holds steady - I view thi as inevitable. Closing things down would only help marginally, and would be fatal economically

Again, I'm not saying we close things down.

I don't think this happened just because "we opened up", I think this happened because things opened up and people chose to be idiots with their behavior.

There's a wave of resignations and early retirements of county health officials due to backlash. Here in Orange County, our county health director resigned after someone doxxed her home address in a public meeting, leading to protests outside her house and even at least one death threat over her putting in a mask requirement. Her replacement rescinded the order. Now we have a statewide mandate, but I doubt the Orange County authorities will lift a finger to enforce or even encourage it. In Texas, the governor is "pausing" reopening, but isn't requiring masks
the governor is "pausing" reopening, but isn't requiring masks. Just "encouraging", which we've seen ain't gonna do sh!t.

This isn't even a left-right issue. This is a bunch of people who desperately want their lives to be "normal" again and so they don't WANT to change their behavior. And that's especially true of the young people, many of whom won't have serious effects but by increasing the spread make it more likely their actions will lead to more vulnerable populations being infected.

betarhoalphadelta · « **Reply #5886 on:** June 26, 2020, 11:07:55 AM »

BTW the one area I agree is that if the deaths don't increases, I'm nowhere near as concerned about the case numbers.

This week and next should give us more information. As I mentioned, Tuesday was higher than the previous Tuesday, Wednesday was the same as the previous Wednesday, and then yesterday was another tick down from the previous Thursday. So it's not pointing--yet--to the 7-day moving average number on deaths starting to rise. I'm very worried that it will, but it hasn't yet.

betarhoalphadelta · « **Reply #5887 on:** June 26, 2020, 11:10:33 AM »

I take it back... Texas just DID reverse some of the openings... Still no statewide mask mandate, but bars are now closed and dine-in restaurants reduced to 50% capacity.

https://gov.texas.gov/news/post/governor-abbott-takes-executive-action-to-contain-spread-of-covid-19

847badgerfan · « **Reply #5888 on:** June 26, 2020, 11:14:38 AM »

Illinois opens up dining in today, among other things. Dining in will be at 25% capacity. It's a rainy day. We'll see.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #5889 on:** June 26, 2020, 11:32:16 AM »

What would be the difference in repeatedly encouraging mask wearing and mandating it as a requirement?

IN practical terms.

betarhoalphadelta · « **Reply #5890 on:** June 26, 2020, 12:09:31 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 26, 2020, 11:32:16 AM

What would be the difference in repeatedly encouraging mask wearing and mandating it as a requirement?

IN practical terms.

There are a couple of things...

From a punitive standpoint to an individual, there's very little difference. I don't think the purpose of a mandate is to punish those individual citizens who don't comply, it's to give a MUCH stronger urge of compliance. After all, there were no penalties spelled out by the CA mandate, as an example, so even if the cops caught you in non-compliance it's not really clear what penalty would or could occur.
From a social pressure to the individual, however, it's different. An encouragement is "it's your choice whether you want to protect yourself" while a mandate is "you're being irresponsible and endangering others if you don't wear it." Generally people are rule-followers, and HATE the idea of having to follow rules themselves while others skate, so having a mandate will likely create a lot more social pressure for compliance than an encouragement.
From a business open to the public standpoint, it's MUCH different. An "encouragement" of mask wearing is targeted at the individual, a mandate means that businesses [who are all regulated to some degree or another by various gov't bodies depending on the type of business] who are in non-compliance could lose various abilities to engage in business. Anything that is regulated by the health department can be sanctioned if they don't enforce the guidelines. It could also open businesses up to liability from their own employees if they don't comply and their employees fall ill.
A mandate gives businesses who are "on the fence" and concerned that by enforcing the mandate they might lose customers a much more sturdy leg to stand on, and it gives customers much less power to "take their business elsewhere" if every business is enforcing the same mandatory guideline.

In practical terms, they ARE different even if you don't plan to throw people who refuse to wear masks in jail or fine them.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #5891 on:** June 26, 2020, 12:12:27 PM »

I think the difference would be slight in practice. I think repeated encouragement at every chance would be a good step. I'd allow private businesses to admit or refuse as they wish. I struggle with having it mandated without force of law.

Entropy · « **Reply #5892 on:** June 26, 2020, 12:13:23 PM »

You could fine businesses and they would force it

betarhoalphadelta · « **Reply #5893 on:** June 26, 2020, 12:26:34 PM »

The problem with allowing businesses to decide on their own is that too frequently it will result in lowest common denominator policies.

Each business will ask themselves two questions:

If I enforce a mask order, how much business will I lose from people who really strongly don't want to wear one?
If I don't enforce a mask order, how much business will I lose from people who won't come into a place if people aren't wearing masks?

There are some of the latter, I'm sure. But which group is bigger? Which group will businesses pander to?

And then socially, when people see others around them NOT wearing masks, the social pressure for themselves to wear masks is diminished. So people who are on the fence might not wear them. There will be people who kinda don't want to wear a mask but will if it's necessary, but will take it off "because they're not making me wear it in here."

Nobody wants to wear a mask. *I* don't want to wear a mask. It's hot, it fogs up my glasses, and I'd much prefer to not have it.

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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

Honestbuckeye

Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

longhorn320

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OrangeAfroMan

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Hawkinole

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Cincydawg

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betarhoalphadelta

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betarhoalphadelta

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betarhoalphadelta

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847badgerfan

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Cincydawg

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betarhoalphadelta

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Cincydawg

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Entropy

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betarhoalphadelta

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