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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17192 on: January 25, 2022, 11:16:00 AM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 11:05:47 AM
I posted that article above.
Yeah, sorry Badge, I should probably have credited you directly, as your post was where I saw it. 

However immediately after your post two others said that the vaccine is not effective against Omicron, and with that I disagree. Omicron is so damn transmissible that the vaccine doesn't do very much* to halt infection. But it's very good at reducing hospitalization and death. Which, to be honest, is kinda the important thing, right? 


 * Although most accounts are that the effectiveness against infection is NOT zero, so to say it does nothing is incorrect. It just doesn't do a lot.  
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847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17193 on: January 25, 2022, 11:32:25 AM »
Precisely. 
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utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17194 on: January 25, 2022, 12:15:17 PM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 25, 2022, 11:16:00 AM
Yeah, sorry Badge, I should probably have credited you directly, as your post was where I saw it.

However immediately after your post two others said that the vaccine is not effective against Omicron, and with that I disagree. Omicron is so damn transmissible that the vaccine doesn't do very much* to halt infection. But it's very good at reducing hospitalization and death. Which, to be honest, is kinda the important thing, right?


* Although most accounts are that the effectiveness against infection is NOT zero, so to say it does nothing is incorrect. It just doesn't do a lot.

Exactly, all of this.

I'm certainly glad I have the vaccine so that if (or more likely, when) I get Omicron, I have improved my chances at avoiding serious illness and the hospital.  I am rational and follow science, though, so not everyone will agree with me.
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bayareabadger

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17195 on: January 25, 2022, 01:18:35 PM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on January 25, 2022, 10:13:25 AM
Then stated reason is bullshit. Delta didn’t just disappear, it’s still around, and I just had it few weeks back. And those monoclonals saved my ass.

If that is the stated reason then they need to pull the vaccine, as it does not work AT ALL against Omicron.
They didn't pull the vaccine. 

They rolled back the use of it if you have omicron. If you have Delta, you can still get it. Problem solved. 
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847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17196 on: January 25, 2022, 03:31:25 PM »
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bayareabadger

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17197 on: January 25, 2022, 05:07:30 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 03:31:25 PM
All the monoclonal sites in Florida are closed right now.

Treatment Locator - Florida Department of Health COVID-19 Outbreak (floridahealthcovid19.gov)
It’s possible that FDA press release was amended after the fact, but the gap in meaning from that to the Fla one (along with the tone) are a mite concerning. (I won’t go as far as to say political, but I imagine some with a lower bar for that would).
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17198 on: January 25, 2022, 05:18:41 PM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on January 25, 2022, 05:07:30 PM
It’s possible that FDA press release was amended after the fact, but the gap in meaning from that to the Fla one (along with the tone) are a mite concerning. (I won’t go as far as to say political, but I imagine some with a lower bar for that would).
Is their a different, reasonable explanation?
I would love to hear it - as my bar is low to NOT want it to be purely politics.   
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bayareabadger

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17199 on: January 25, 2022, 05:37:29 PM »
Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 25, 2022, 05:18:41 PM
Is their a different, reasonable explanation?
I would love to hear it - as my bar is low to NOT want it to be purely politics. 
It’s odd. The first tweet with the announcement says still allowed for Delta. The second says not authorized in states.

Our meandering journey of shit messaging continues unabated.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17200 on: January 25, 2022, 05:40:45 PM »
The Governor is some kind of pissed with this thing. I saw his presser. I've never seen him as angry as this.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17201 on: January 25, 2022, 06:14:21 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 05:40:45 PM
The Governor is some kind of pissed with this thing. I saw his presser. I've never seen him as angry as this.
It’s very hard to blame him. The people that are using these clinics are raving about the success and the alternative treatment once you did get Covid, and by the way the overwhelming majority of the people using the clinics are already vaccinated
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17202 on: January 25, 2022, 06:42:50 PM »
I will say that I do believe the monoclonal antibodies are an excellent treatment. 

That said, COVID is one of those things were you have two things going on:


  • It's mild enough, for enough of the population, that a lot of people are going to take monoclonal antibodies, recover, and claim monoclonal antibodies caused their recovery. But because it's mild enough for that much of the population, there's an excellent chance those people would recover in the absence of monoclonal antibody treatment. So causation is hard to determine, especially on an anecdotal level. 
  • There may be people who get the monoclonal antibody treatment and then, for whatever reason, still die from COVID. Those people won't be on social media claiming the antibodies cured them... because they're dead. Standard survivorship bias when you're talking about anecdotal reports of how good they are. 

Again, everything I know of them suggest they're excellent treatment and improve outcomes, particularly when applied in the early stages of infection. 

I don't know how effective they are against Omicron, and I'm not going to wade into the politics of it. 

But monoclonal antibodies are one arrow in the quiver. We shouldn't act like they're the entire arsenal. 
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17203 on: January 25, 2022, 06:48:43 PM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 25, 2022, 06:42:50 PM
I will say that I do believe the monoclonal antibodies are an excellent treatment.

That said, COVID is one of those things were you have two things going on:


  • It's mild enough, for enough of the population, that a lot of people are going to take monoclonal antibodies, recover, and claim monoclonal antibodies caused their recovery. But because it's mild enough for that much of the population, there's an excellent chance those people would recover in the absence of monoclonal antibody treatment. So causation is hard to determine, especially on an anecdotal level.
  • There may be people who get the monoclonal antibody treatment and then, for whatever reason, still die from COVID. Those people won't be on social media claiming the antibodies cured them... because they're dead. Standard survivorship bias when you're talking about anecdotal reports of how good they are.

Again, everything I know of them suggest they're excellent treatment and improve outcomes, particularly when applied in the early stages of infection.

I don't know how effective they are against Omicron, and I'm not going to wade into the politics of it.

But monoclonal antibodies are one arrow in the quiver. We shouldn't act like they're the entire arsenal.

Who is acting like they’re the only tool in the arsenal? Are you not paying attention?

The FDA, in other words our government, is acting like it’s not a tool in arsenal at all, and that it’s dangerous, and that doctors and patients should not even have the choice.  Are you OK with that?
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17204 on: January 25, 2022, 06:55:10 PM »
Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 25, 2022, 06:48:43 PM
Who is acting like they’re the only tool in the arsenal? Are you not paying attention?

The FDA, in other words our government, is acting like it’s not a tool in arsenal at all, and that it’s dangerous, and that doctors and patients should not even have the choice.  Are you OK with that?
Not going to weigh in on that, because I don't have the time to research an informed opinion on the science and/or the political reasoning thereof. 

I will say that as a very general axiom in my political philosophy, I don't agree with the FDA blocking people from treatments that they want and can pay for, especially if the treatments have no or very minimal known negative effects. 
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17205 on: January 25, 2022, 07:01:40 PM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 25, 2022, 06:55:10 PM
Not going to weigh in on that, because I don't have the time to research an informed opinion on the science and/or the political reasoning thereof.

I will say that as a very general axiom in my political philosophy, I don't agree with the FDA blocking people from treatments that they want and can pay for, especially if the treatments have no or very minimal known negative effects.
Agreed.   Even if it’s just a placebo, and people only think it helps which might be the case as you suggested, unless they can clearly state risks it should be between the doctor and the patient.   Otherwise it’s hard to conclude that it is anything but political which is very sad.  
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