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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

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847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14504 on: August 03, 2021, 02:00:47 PM »
Best of luck to you and your wife, Thumper.

On this point, my understanding of all the reading that I've been doing is that immunity is not just a matter of current antibody levels--it's the B cells (or maybe T cells) that have the ability to recognize the spike protein and ramp up antibody production extremely quickly if the virus is encountered, and those cells apparently persist LONG after the antibodies wane.

That's one of the unknowns with the vaccine--do waning antibodies mean that you need additional boosters? Or not?

I suspect we'll start to understand that soon, as researches start to get data on breakthrough infections (especially if they require hospitalization or end in death) and correlate it to how long it had been since the infected person had their vaccine.

A lot still to figure out...
Both, and they both can stay in bone marrow for a lifetime. This is from an MD on another board I lurk on (BadgerBlitz). And yes, I did ask him if I could share this here.


U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14505 on: August 03, 2021, 02:03:59 PM »
Here's a really good one from Virginia showing cases by vaccination status:

https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/covid-19-data-insights/covid-19-cases-by-vaccination-status/

It allows you to adjust the timeline for the data. One of the criticisms of data is that the timeline for how many cases are in the unvaccinated often starts too early before vaccine rollout was really widespread. That will naturally make the percentage unvaccinated seem higher than is really accurate.

I.e. their default start date (Jan 21) suggests that >99% of cases were in the unvaccinated, and >98% of hospitalizations/deaths were in the unvaccinated. But that's unfair because in Jan/Feb only very few people had access to the vaccines, i.e. healthcare workers, etc.

If you look at say a start date of May 1, so you get a 3 month timeline when vaccines should be pretty available, you get that reported cases were >97% unvaccinated, reported hospitalizations were >94% unvaccinated, and reported deaths were >93% unvaccinated. By now VA is somewhere near 50%ish vaccination, so that's a pretty stark difference in cases and outcomes.

So kudos to Virginia in presenting the data in a way that allows for more nuanced analysis than starting the date at Jan 21.

FearlessF

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14506 on: August 03, 2021, 05:26:56 PM »
what media outlet, or health official or politician or "expert" ever told the public that the vaccine would kept folks from getting the virus?

and if no one EVER said this, why do stupid people think this is implied?
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14507 on: August 03, 2021, 05:33:49 PM »
The messaging on this thing has become worse than the virus itself. Every f'ing day it's something new.

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GopherRock

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14508 on: August 03, 2021, 05:41:08 PM »
My wife and I got Covid back in late January, 2020.  At that time, WHO and CDC said all the cases were in China and 2 in the US so we went on a cruise to the Bahamas.  A lot of sick people on the ship and especially on the plane back home.  We thought it was bad flu.
A couple of days after we got back we both started coughing and had fevers over 103.  After a week, I was finally strong enough to get us to an emergency room.  Of course they told us there was no Covid in Kansas or in the Bahamas but they did give us the Zpack they were using to treat Covid.  Our oxygen levels were 90 and 91 percent so they wanted to check us in and put us on ventilators.  We said no thanks.  It took me 5 weeks to get back on my feet, took my wife 2 months.  We still haven't regained full short term memory. 
My wife has a Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia and has a compromised immune system from radiation and chemo.  We were both vaccinated with 2 shots of Pfizer.  My wife is in a study for CLL Covid antibodies and she has almost no antibodies right now.  We are trying to get booster shots as they have shown positive results for CLL patients. 
Right now in my area, hospitals are full and we are in the high infection range we were in back at the last peak.  Less than half of the people here are vaccinated and masks are rare.
Holy cow. Good to know that you're still around.

utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14509 on: August 03, 2021, 05:43:35 PM »
what media outlet, or health official or politician or "expert" ever told the public that the vaccine would kept folks from getting the virus?

and if no one EVER said this, why do stupid people think this is implied?
Well, and the flipside of this, is that we're seeing vaccinated people testing positive, when they're not actually sick and not likely to spread it.  The vaccine can't keep you from breathing in the virus and then having your body go through its natural response to infection.  What it can do, and seems to do quite well, is prevent you from getting sick, prevent you from becoming hospitalized, prevent you from death.  I'm speaking in statistical terms here, because of course there are breakthrough infections that have caused serious illness, hospitalization, and death.  But the odds of those outcomes are significantly reduced with vaccination.

It highlights the one major problem that I've been pointing out for the past 18 months which is that, on a global scale, nobody has ever even attempted to define what "success" looks like.  We somehow went from "flatten the curve" to "eradicate the virus" without any rational thought about what would and should actually be our criteria for success.

My own heuristic for success, is something like, "through vaccination and treatments, reduce the effects of SARS-CoV-2 to nothing worse than the seasonal flu in an average year, in all aspects, including serious illness, hospitalization, and death of individuals, as well as social and economic impact to society."

We're clearly not there yet, not enough people have been vaccinated and/or infected.  But one way or the other, we'll get there eventually.


FearlessF

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14510 on: August 03, 2021, 05:49:55 PM »
I feel that many folks are refusing the vaccine because they think it doesn't prevent them from getting the virus

it's F'ing absurd and illogical

not going political, but for almost a year it was the former President's fault for messaging

changing politicians hasn't helped the messaging to any effectiveness - it's frustrating
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

longhorn320

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14511 on: August 03, 2021, 06:06:26 PM »
I feel that many folks are refusing the vaccine because they think it doesn't prevent them from getting the virus

it's F'ing absurd and illogical

not going political, but for almost a year it was the former President's fault for messaging

changing politicians hasn't helped the messaging to any effectiveness - it's frustrating
ummmm Im telling


Fearless is going to get uteed
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14512 on: August 03, 2021, 06:19:13 PM »
Fearless about to get nuked.

3... 2... 1...


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14513 on: August 03, 2021, 07:10:46 PM »
Simple explanation...

A vaccine is like having a strong military. That strong military, which has a lot of resources, which constantly trains to keep its effectiveness up, etc.

Having a strong military doesn't mean you'll never be attacked and you'll never be in a war. That's silly.

It means that you won't *LOSE* a war.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14514 on: August 03, 2021, 09:48:22 PM »
I feel that many folks are refusing the vaccine because they think it doesn't prevent them from getting the virus

it's F'ing absurd and illogical

not going political, but for almost a year it was the former President's fault for messaging

changing politicians hasn't helped the messaging to any effectiveness - it's frustrating
That is a new take for me, and a very interesting one. People not taking the virus because they don’t think it will stop them from getting Covid?

I have heard of many people who don’t take it because they don’t care about getting Covid because they feel healthy, I’ve heard of people who won’t take the vaccine because they’re afraid of the potential long-term impacts which we do not yet know, and I’ve heard of people who won’t take the vaccine because their doctor told them they have antibodies already.

ironically, if they think the vaccine won’t prevent them from getting Covid-it turns out they are correct doesn’t it?

and yes please if you’re going to go political do two things for me: put it in the thread where it’s allowed and don’t go on an “opposite day” take. We need to admit the obvious which is that the messaging from those not in office and trying to get in office created more doubt about the vaccine than anything, And it was blatant, unwavering, and intentional.


Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

Honestbuckeye

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14515 on: August 03, 2021, 09:51:44 PM »
There is a nice young lady who works for me who is six months pregnant. I spoke to her today and she let me know that both her and her husband are vaccinated but that her husband is now testing positive with a case of “breakthrough“ covid.  

She is a little bit worried and they are isolating from each other in the same house. Here’s the interesting thing: her doctor told her that of all of her current pregnant patients, less than 40% of them chose to get vaccinated while the remainder did not.

Glad I didn’t have to make that decision. 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14516 on: August 03, 2021, 09:52:06 PM »
And that's it for the political takes.

The rebuttal was warranted.  Now please stop it.  I'm deleting everything from here on out.


Honestbuckeye

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14517 on: August 03, 2021, 09:54:45 PM »
And that's it for the political takes.

The rebuttal was warranted.  Now please stop it.  I'm deleting everything from here on out.


Understood.  👍
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

 

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