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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

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847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12432 on: February 09, 2021, 03:53:57 PM »
Makes a ton of sense, Bwar.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12433 on: February 09, 2021, 08:10:15 PM »
Makes a ton of sense, Bwar.
Not the part about her decision being a irrrational that is not accurate at all. Think about it. Very intelligent healthy young person who is exceptionally happy that her elderly grandfather with health issues got the vaccine, but who is taking a wait and see approach on getting it for herself. There is nothing irrational about that and no amount of research would change her mind. She is thinking clearly and making the best decision for herself based upon all available information. The risks that are known and the understanding that there may be risks that are unknown.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12434 on: February 10, 2021, 05:49:51 AM »
https://www.foxnews.com/us/at-least-36-people-develop-rare-blood-disorder-after-covid-vaccination

Was this healthy 56 year old Doctor being rational? Yes. The stats on this are minuscule.  But the vaccine is still  in experimental stage.   
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

bayareabadger

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12435 on: February 10, 2021, 08:37:40 AM »
https://www.foxnews.com/us/at-least-36-people-develop-rare-blood-disorder-after-covid-vaccination

Was this healthy 56 year old Doctor being rational? Yes. The stats on this are minuscule.  But the vaccine is still  in experimental stage. 
Finally an MSM story (front the New York Times no less) that people can get behind. 

The argument "There is nothing irrational about that and no amount of research would change her mind," seems to kind of breed it's own problems. For one, if no amount of research would change someone's mind, is that rational? About a health decision if they are not close to a health professional? This seems like it would be incredibly irrational. 

But we also don't really know that no amount of research would change her mind. That's kind of just a guess by you, correct?She didn't say, "If I went to my doctor and she said it's pretty safe, safer than drugs I already take, I still would probably say no," did she? 

She's making a choice she sees as risk averse. It might not be built on much evidence, but many choices are not, and that's most often not bad. I don't know that I'd elevate it as part of "personal responsibility" because that implies a wide swath of choices have a certain nobility. If she say took a step like talking to her doctor, attaching personal responsibility might make more sense. In the end, it just feels like a choice. Not one built on a solid block or researched reasons, which is the case for a great many choices in our lives. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12436 on: February 10, 2021, 09:06:06 AM »
A 2010 study published in the American Journal of Hematology found that 3.3 per 100,000 adults are diagnosed with ITP per year. 

We have over 30 million vaccinated already.  We'd expect over a year to see 3,000 people out of 30 million diagnosed with ITP.  We don't have a year of course, call it a month, so cut that figure to 250 or so.  That would be the number of cases among 30 million people since Jan 1 NOT vaccinated.

You always need some comparison group.

CatsbyAZ

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12437 on: February 10, 2021, 10:09:20 AM »
Meanwhile, the WHO says the virus didn't originate in a lab. Of course, fox in hen house.

WHO drops investigation into whether COVID-19 virus leaked from Wuhan lab, calling theory unlikely | Fox News



Biologists at 5 min mark: 

"...there are lots of viruses that can escape from nature and infect people but in general they don't have a second trick, that is to say they can infect you...but they can't jump to the next person. What's really conspicuous about this virus is that it had both tricks from the get-go. It infects people and it differs from one person to the next with no explanation."

"...amongst those who have been seriously investigating the question of whether this is a lab escape is that the virus would have been passed through either animals in the lab or tissues in the lab in order to use evolution to re-rig it and that means that tension was put on the virus pulling it in the direction of certain things. Some of those things were intentional like infectivity of human cells which may have given it extra capacities like this fern cleavage site that no other virus like this has...the fact that this virus attacks so many different tissues in the body does not seem natural. The fact that it does not seem to transmit outdoors is very conspicuous...after all most animals live outdoors so a virus that seems adapted to indoor transmission is a bit conspicuous."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMGWLLDSA3c

Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12438 on: February 10, 2021, 10:31:52 AM »
From wiki:

Major modern diseases such as Ebola virus disease and salmonellosis are zoonoses. HIV was a zoonotic disease transmitted to humans in the early part of the 20th century, though it has now mutated to a separate human-only disease. Most strains of influenza that infect humans are human diseases, although many strains of bird flu and swine flu are zoonoses; these viruses occasionally recombine with human strains of the flu and can cause pandemics such as the 1918 Spanish flu or the 2009 swine flu.[4] Taenia solium infection is one of the neglected tropical diseases with public health and veterinary concern in endemic regions.[5] Zoonoses can be caused by a range of disease pathogens such as emergent viruses, bacteria, fungi and parasites; of 1,415 pathogens known to infect humans, 61% were zoonotic.[6] Most human diseases originated animals; however, only diseases that routinely involve non-human to human transmission, such as rabies, are considered direct zoonosis.[7]

Zoonoses have different modes of transmission. In direct zoonosis the disease is directly transmitted from animals to humans through media such as air (influenza) or through bites and saliva (rabies).[8] In contrast, transmission can also occur via an intermediate species (referred to as a vector), which carry the disease pathogen without getting sick. When humans infect animals, it is called reverse zoonosis or anthroponosis.[9] The term is from Greek: ζῷον zoon "animal" and νόσος nosos "sickness".


847badgerfan

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U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

FearlessF

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12440 on: February 10, 2021, 11:01:08 AM »
everything that comes out of China is a bit conspicuous
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FearlessF

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12441 on: February 10, 2021, 12:42:50 PM »
Iowa

May be an image of text that says 'COVID-19 Hospitalized Patients 292 Compared to Yesterday: 327 COVID-19 Hospitalized Patients 20K 15K 10K 1.6K 5K 1.2K 800 0 Apr May Jun Jul 2020 400 Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Jan Feb 2021'
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12442 on: February 10, 2021, 01:20:54 PM »
Not the part about her decision being a irrrational that is not accurate at all. Think about it. Very intelligent healthy young person who is exceptionally happy that her elderly grandfather with health issues got the vaccine, but who is taking a wait and see approach on getting it for herself. There is nothing irrational about that and no amount of research would change her mind. She is thinking clearly and making the best decision for herself based upon all available information. The risks that are known and the understanding that there may be risks that are unknown.
Where I'm coming from is that it sounds like she really hasn't done much research at all. At least that was my takeaway from your description of the encounter. All I got from it is that she'd heard something about severe allergies (which is why they keep you for monitoring afterwards to ensure there is no anaphylactic response) and that she doesn't understand why we've got a bunch of other infectious diseases that don't have vaccines/cures but we got this one so quickly. 

If that's the case, then I find it hard to agree that she's making the best decision for herself "based on all available information."

She's making a decision based on little to no information. It's based on gut feel about risks and benefits, not actual data on risks and benefits.

I consider that to be irrational. 

Honestbuckeye

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12443 on: February 10, 2021, 01:32:41 PM »
Where I'm coming from is that it sounds like she really hasn't done much research at all. At least that was my takeaway from your description of the encounter. All I got from it is that she'd heard something about severe allergies (which is why they keep you for monitoring afterwards to ensure there is no anaphylactic response) and that she doesn't understand why we've got a bunch of other infectious diseases that don't have vaccines/cures but we got this one so quickly.

If that's the case, then I find it hard to agree that she's making the best decision for herself "based on all available information."

She's making a decision based on little to no information. It's based on gut feel about risks and benefits, not actual data on risks and benefits.

I consider that to be irrational.

We can agree to disagree.

if you look at the poll 847 posted- it kind of tells us what’s really happening here. Those few individuals that have had issues with the vaccine have either tried to share their experience and been canceled out or are scared to even try. People aren’t stupid they see that. It makes them wonder what is up here? You’re not even allowed to go on social media and ask basic questions- only to be completely bombarded.  

Even in this forum, which is a form of social media, if you question the vaccine you are virtually attacked immediately as we saw yesterday. You’re not even allowed to question what are the long-term effects? How was the testing done so fast?

As far as the MSM- These are the same people who vehemently opposed any optimism about a vaccine back in the late fall months when this was being worked on because they absolutely wanted to make sure that nobody had any hope prior to the election. Those same people now will chop your head off if you question the vaccine with even basic curiosity. People can see that.

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12444 on: February 10, 2021, 01:35:28 PM »
https://www.foxnews.com/us/at-least-36-people-develop-rare-blood-disorder-after-covid-vaccination

Was this healthy 56 year old Doctor being rational? Yes. The stats on this are minuscule.  But the vaccine is still  in experimental stage. 
Thanks for that link. I had heard of the initial case with this doctor, but had not seen anything about additional adverse reactions of this type reported. 

This is something I've been trying to keep my eyes on. I hadn't heard of additional cases.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #12445 on: February 10, 2021, 01:40:00 PM »
Thanks for that link. I had heard of the initial case with this doctor, but had not seen anything about additional adverse reactions of this type reported.

This is something I've been trying to keep my eyes on. I hadn't heard of additional cases.

It is statistically insignificant.    I was just shocked it got published.  
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

 

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