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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #11536 on: December 18, 2020, 08:54:44 AM »
350,000 dead Americans.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #11537 on: December 18, 2020, 08:56:19 AM »
That doesn't count the dead Americans who have died from OD, alcohol poisoning, suicide, increased violence, etc.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #11538 on: December 18, 2020, 09:48:49 AM »
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #11539 on: December 18, 2020, 10:38:28 AM »
Quote from: TyphonInc on December 18, 2020, 07:27:44 AM
Conspiracy in 3 ... 2... 1
hmmm. The Chinese had Moderna back in January a year ago.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/12/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-design.html

but gosh China didn't know anything about this disease prior to that hibernating pesky bat, flying 1200 miles on his own, to infect a a pangolin (neither of which are sold at said wet market) and getting the original 34 sick who had no contact with said wet market.

But gee wizz, 2 and half miles down the road there was an infectious bio lab, who was studying those exacts bats, and this exact disease, and all 34 original victims had 1st or 2nd degree contract tracing with said lab, that now had the vaccine before the disease was even in America...

And Trump is the crazy one for calling it the China Disease.
With modern tools, getting a genetic sequence from pretty much anything is trivial. What they had in January (2 months after the first outbreaks in China) was the full genetic sequence of the virus. 

That doesn't mean "China had the vaccine" in January. 
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TyphonInc

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #11540 on: December 18, 2020, 01:25:04 PM »
Quote from: bwarbiany on December 18, 2020, 10:38:28 AM
With modern tools, getting a genetic sequence from pretty much anything is trivial. What they had in January (2 months after the first outbreaks in China) was the full genetic sequence of the virus.

That doesn't mean "China had the vaccine" in January.

That's not what the article says. It says they had the exact Moderna cure we are using now back in January. 
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Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #11541 on: December 18, 2020, 01:36:05 PM »
Moderna’s mRNA-1273, which reported a 94.5 percent efficacy rate on November 16, had been designed by January 13. This was just two days after the genetic sequence had been made public in an act of scientific and humanitarian generosity that resulted in China’s Yong-Zhen Zhang’s being temporarily forced out of his lab. 


The article says the DESIGN was in hand.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #11542 on: December 18, 2020, 01:50:59 PM »
Quote from: TyphonInc on December 18, 2020, 01:25:04 PM
That's not what the article says. It says they had the exact Moderna cure we are using now back in January.
Quote from: Cincydawg on December 18, 2020, 01:36:05 PM
Moderna’s mRNA-1273, which reported a 94.5 percent efficacy rate on November 16, had been designed by January 13. This was just two days after the genetic sequence had been made public in an act of scientific and humanitarian generosity that resulted in China’s Yong-Zhen Zhang’s being temporarily forced out of his lab.


The article says the DESIGN was in hand.
It says that China started vaccinating their military in June, and Russia rolled out their vaccine in August. 

The article has many points to make--about perhaps our FDA may be too cautious in the face of a known killer disease. That is certainly a valid argument. Although the FDA actually moved FAR faster than it typically does, could an argument be made that they should have gone faster, or changed the processes, to get things out even sooner? Perhaps.

But the article doesn't say China had the vaccine in January. 
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847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #11543 on: December 18, 2020, 02:53:06 PM »
Today's update:






Wisconsin:


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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #11544 on: December 18, 2020, 03:03:45 PM »
So we don't trust anything China and Russia say, unless it aligns with our confirmation bias?  I gotta write these rules down to fit in around here.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #11545 on: December 18, 2020, 03:09:59 PM »
I don't doubt China and Russia may have vaccinated their armed forces months ago.  They have a closeted clientel.  Our military today gets a whole raft of shots before deploying overseas.

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #11546 on: December 18, 2020, 03:11:25 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 18, 2020, 03:03:45 PM
So we don't trust anything China and Russia say, unless it aligns with our confirmation bias?  I gotta write these rules down to fit in around here.
Huh? 

China and Russia are both well-known to take a much different view of human rights than we have in the United States (or Europe, or most of the rest of the first world). If they experience some deaths or long-term complications in a small portion of people to get the vaccine out faster, I think they might view that as an acceptable sacrifice. 

While I sometimes think [in agreement with that article] that our own FDA is over-cautious, and they may place their balance of risk vs reward too much on avoiding risk, the flip side of that is that when something actually does get FDA approval, we place very high faith in that stamp of approval. 

So... Exactly what is your point? 
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #11547 on: December 18, 2020, 03:16:45 PM »
Quote from: bwarbiany on December 18, 2020, 03:11:25 PM
Huh?

China and Russia are both well-known to take a much different view of human rights than we have in the United States (or Europe, or most of the rest of the first world). If they experience some deaths or long-term complications in a small portion of people to get the vaccine out faster, I think they might view that as an acceptable sacrifice.

While I sometimes think [in agreement with that article] that our own FDA is over-cautious, and they may place their balance of risk vs reward too much on avoiding risk, the flip side of that is that when something actually does get FDA approval, we place very high faith in that stamp of approval.

So... Exactly what is your point?
This is exactly true.  

Any democratic bureaucracy acts this way.  It doesn't matter if they are charged with protecting people from bad medicines or bad dams or bad anything else.  If they are over-cautious they can blame the lives lost on the virus or the flood so it isn't "their fault".  However, if they are under-cautious the deaths will be 100% on them.  Thus, they ALWAYS err on the side of caution.  In China/Russia this is not as much of an issue because they can censor the news.  Our way is generally better but certainly not always.  Winston Churchill once said that "Democracy is the worst form of government except all of the others."  
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Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #11548 on: December 18, 2020, 03:23:23 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 18, 2020, 03:03:45 PM
So we don't trust anything China and Russia say, unless it aligns with our confirmation bias?  I gotta write these rules down to fit in around here.
What is it in the report that you think we don't believe, or do believe in should not?

Some of us are trying to discuss what it may mean.  I don't think anyone takes it as complete truth, but parts may be true obviously.
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MrNubbz

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #11549 on: December 18, 2020, 03:30:57 PM »
Quote from: bwarbiany on December 18, 2020, 03:11:25 PM
So... Exactly what is your point?
It's on his head
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