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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
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Cincydawg · « **Reply #10584 on:** November 13, 2020, 11:09:48 AM »

How much air resistance is developed when using a submicron air filtration system?

I'd think perhaps an electrostatic filter might be more practicable?

I once worked on the filtration properties of a submicron "holy" polymer and the problem was air resistance.

Fine filter, but not practicable without rather heroic air handling cap.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #10585 on:** November 13, 2020, 11:15:05 AM »

betarhoalphadelta · « **Reply #10586 on:** November 13, 2020, 11:23:39 AM »

I'm not saying it won't help at all, but I think air filtration solves a second or third order problem.

I.e. if you're in row 10 of an airplane and there's an infected person in row 25, the air filtration systems in the airplane do a pretty good job of protecting you. Those stories about air filtration systems are due to the belief by many that airplanes are somehow more dangerous because of recycled air, and they're putting those stories out there to defuse that belief.

If you're in 25A and there's an infected person in 25B, however, the air filtration system of the airplane never comes into play. At that point it's a lot better protocol for you both to be wearing a mask.

Likewise, in a restaurant the air filtration could help protect someone 25 feet away at a different table. But if it's 4 people from 4 households sharing a table for an hour, the air filtration doesn't even come into play.

So I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I think we'd have to look at cost, and the reduced airflow of strong filters potentially increasing the energy requirements of running the system, measured against the actual benefit provided. Especially for businesses which are now doing a lot of WFH--better spacing and air filtration could help avoid outbreaks in an office environment.

But I'm saying that if one of the primary modes of spread is small gatherings, as a lot of people are saying right now, air filtration is only a tiny piece of a much larger puzzle.

utee94 · « **Reply #10587 on:** November 13, 2020, 11:24:25 AM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 13, 2020, 11:09:48 AM

How much air resistance is developed when using a submicron air filtration system?

I'd think perhaps an electrostatic filter might be more practicable?

I once worked on the filtration properties of a submicron "holy" polymer and the problem was air resistance.

Fine filter, but not practicable without rather heroic air handling cap.

Well I'd certainly leave those questions to the experts, to answer and resolve. Dammit Jim, I'm an electrical engineer, not a doctor!

FearlessF · « **Reply #10588 on:** November 13, 2020, 11:26:20 AM »

Quote from: utee94 on November 13, 2020, 10:20:21 AM

I don't consider it a "plan" at all, simply an inevitable outcome.

We should probably start some other plans though, that don't rely on the hope of a vaccine, and don't expect people to live in isolation indefinitely-- because that bit is already not working. It was never a long term solution. It could never have been.

we are working this plan currently

utee94 · « **Reply #10589 on:** November 13, 2020, 11:26:50 AM »

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 13, 2020, 11:23:39 AM

I'm not saying it won't help at all, but I think air filtration solves a second or third order problem.

I.e. if you're in row 10 of an airplane and there's an infected person in row 25, the air filtration systems in the airplane do a pretty good job of protecting you. Those stories about air filtration systems are due to the belief by many that airplanes are somehow more dangerous because of recycled air, and they're putting those stories out there to defuse that belief.

If you're in 25A and there's an infected person in 25B, however, the air filtration system of the airplane never comes into play. At that point it's a lot better protocol for you both to be wearing a mask.

Likewise, in a restaurant the air filtration could help protect someone 25 feet away at a different table. But if it's 4 people from 4 households sharing a table for an hour, the air filtration doesn't even come into play.

So I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I think we'd have to look at cost, and the reduced airflow of strong filters potentially increasing the energy requirements of running the system, measured against the actual benefit provided. Especially for businesses which are now doing a lot of WFH--better spacing and air filtration could help avoid outbreaks in an office environment.

But I'm saying that if one of the primary modes of spread is small gatherings, as a lot of people are saying right now, air filtration is only a tiny piece of a much larger puzzle.

I'm talking about keeping restaurants and businesses open.

Nothing-- and I mean NOTHING-- we plan or say or do, at this point, is going to keep people from gathering in small groups inside their own homes, and spreading this thing.

So if we determine that THAT is the primary mechanism of spread, and everything else is orders of magnitude smaller, then there's not much point in all of the other stuff, is there?

FearlessF · « **Reply #10590 on:** November 13, 2020, 11:30:13 AM »

Quote from: utee94 on November 13, 2020, 11:04:32 AM

So no, I'm not going to agree that there's simply nothing we can do to help, regarding air filtration and improved ventilation for indoor buildings.

Like a mask-- in fact EXACTLY like a mask-- it's not a guaranteed solution. But it can certainly be helpful.

I don't think we're getting an effective vaccine. It would be nice, for sure. But that's not the basket where we can afford to place our eggs.

We're smart people. We need to start doing smart things.

Living in isolation indefinitely isn't smart, and it's already failing miserably.

I'm much more hopeful. It seems from reports that 3 or 4 American companies are having some success with vaccine development.
Besides that there are many other international efforts going on at the moment. Some of these foreign vaccines may not be shared initially, but I'd guess they could be copied if effective.

847badgerfan · « **Reply #10591 on:** November 13, 2020, 11:41:27 AM »

Picked up 500 shares of AZN yesterday.

betarhoalphadelta · « **Reply #10592 on:** November 13, 2020, 12:16:40 PM »

Quote from: utee94 on November 13, 2020, 11:26:50 AM

I'm talking about keeping restaurants and businesses open.

Nothing-- and I mean NOTHING-- we plan or say or do, at this point, is going to keep people from gathering in small groups inside their own homes, and spreading this thing.

So if we determine that THAT is the primary mechanism of spread, and everything else is orders of magnitude smaller, then there's not much point in all of the other stuff, is there?

Nope.

Which is why I think the vaccine development is top priority.

And at this point, I don't think there's any point to closing restaurants, because people are still going to gather privately. If they're going to do it anyway, might as well contribute to the economy while they do, right?

utee94 · « **Reply #10593 on:** November 13, 2020, 12:24:35 PM »

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 13, 2020, 12:16:40 PM

Nope.

Which is why I think the vaccine development is top priority.

And at this point, I don't think there's any point to closing restaurants, because people are still going to gather privately. If they're going to do it anyway, might as well contribute to the economy while they do, right?

Well we're aligned there.

Main difference between you and me, is that I don't expect a vaccine.

I sure hope we see one, though.

GopherRock · « **Reply #10594 on:** November 13, 2020, 12:33:58 PM »

5,552 positive cases on 51,000+ tests run, 10.8%. Deaths are down slightly from last week's peak, but hospitals are still pegged out.

Benthere2 · « **Reply #10595 on:** November 13, 2020, 01:06:24 PM »

i hope a treatment that is better than what we had maybe 4 months ago can be developed

vaccines are nice but are only part of the fix

a combination of an effective treatment and a vaccine can eliminate the percentage that the vaccine wont totally limit. and maybe we can get our lives back to pre COVID normal

problem is I am not hearing much about a treatment

Cincydawg · « **Reply #10596 on:** November 13, 2020, 01:35:17 PM »

Treatments have advanced, dexamethasone, remdesivir to name two that have been approved and treat different aspect of the disease. There also is the Lily approach with antibodies that was used on Trump.

FearlessF · « **Reply #10597 on:** November 13, 2020, 01:37:14 PM »

bleach injections and ultraviolet light treatments getting more advanced?

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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

Cincydawg

Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

Cincydawg

Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

betarhoalphadelta

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utee94

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FearlessF

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utee94

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FearlessF

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847badgerfan

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betarhoalphadelta

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utee94

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GopherRock

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Benthere2

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Cincydawg

Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

FearlessF

Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas