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Topic: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #532 on: July 16, 2021, 04:32:38 PM »
We also don't know how the committee (I assume it'll be a committee) will rank these G5 'champs,' now that they'll automatically be included.  They could very well just set them as the 12 seed every year.  
I don't think it should alter their ranking of them, but it may.  Just another unknown to consider.
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Cincydawg

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #533 on: July 16, 2021, 05:36:32 PM »
I'm fairly confident any committee would rank G5 teams as they would other teams, similar to how the AP does it now.

I wonder how possible it would be for another "FSU" G5 team to play such a slate and go 13-0 that they would get a bye.  Well, not very.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #534 on: July 16, 2021, 05:49:22 PM »
I don't think they'll just set them as the #12 every year...

...but in a majority of years, the top G5 is likely to be the #12. 

There might be a few where the top G5 is #11 while the bottom P5 champ is #12 lol...

And there will be some years where the top G5 is legitimately given a top 10 seed. I doubt it'll be a majority though.

Cincydawg

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #535 on: July 16, 2021, 05:56:55 PM »
Is this 12 team playoff the real deal now (in a few years)?  Has it been approved?  Is approval certain or near certain?

FearlessF

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #536 on: July 16, 2021, 09:22:11 PM »
the committee has shown they will rank the final poll for matchups

such as no rematches and no head to head for conference mates

it's not fair
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #537 on: July 17, 2021, 01:23:29 PM »
the committee has shown they will rank the final poll for matchups

such as no rematches and no head to head for conference mates

it's not fair
In their release, it specifies they won't change seedings for that.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

medinabuckeye1

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #538 on: July 19, 2021, 10:57:00 AM »
We also don't know how the committee (I assume it'll be a committee) will rank these G5 'champs,' now that they'll automatically be included.  They could very well just set them as the 12 seed every year. 
I don't think it should alter their ranking of them, but it may.  Just another unknown to consider.
I'm fairly confident any committee would rank G5 teams as they would other teams, similar to how the AP does it now.

I wonder how possible it would be for another "FSU" G5 team to play such a slate and go 13-0 that they would get a bye.  Well, not very.
I don't think they'll just set them as the #12 every year...

...but in a majority of years, the top G5 is likely to be the #12.

There might be a few where the top G5 is #11 while the bottom P5 champ is #12 lol...

And there will be some years where the top G5 is legitimately given a top 10 seed. I doubt it'll be a majority though.
As I said above, I think it will depend largely on how they do in the first few years and it can snowball from there. 

If @OrangeAfroMan and I are right and the G5 Champs are just unable to compete with their CFP opponents year in and year out that will make it obvious that OAM and I are right and consequently all future G5 Champions will get dinged.  After two or three years of watching the token G5 Champ get obliterated in their first round game it will be very difficult for any G5 Champ to get above the #12 seed.  Then that will snowball because with all of them getting the #12 seed they'll all get the toughest possible match-up (road game at #5) so even if there IS a legitimate top-10 G5 Champion, they'll likely still lose because they'll be playing a true road game against a top-5 team.  

Conversely, if OAM and I are wrong and the G5 Champs routinely win their first round games that will put pressure on the committee to rank them more highly.  Ie, if the first couple G5 Champs in the CFP are #12 seeds that knock off #5 seeds, the G5 Champs that come after that will get better rankings.  Then even the shakier ones will have a MUCH better chance because instead of being the #12 seed and getting a true road game against a top-5 team they'll be a #5 or #6 seed and get a home game against a team outside of the top-10.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #539 on: July 19, 2021, 10:57:28 AM »
Is this 12 team playoff the real deal now (in a few years)?  Has it been approved?  Is approval certain or near certain?
My impression is that it is not yet formally approved but that it appears to be inevitable.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #540 on: July 19, 2021, 11:04:41 AM »
As I said above, I think it will depend largely on how they do in the first few years and it can snowball from there. 

If @OrangeAfroMan and I are right and the G5 Champs are just unable to compete with their CFP opponents year in and year out that will make it obvious that OAM and I are right and consequently all future G5 Champions will get dinged.  After two or three years of watching the token G5 Champ get obliterated in their first round game it will be very difficult for any G5 Champ to get above the #12 seed.  Then that will snowball because with all of them getting the #12 seed they'll all get the toughest possible match-up (road game at #5) so even if there IS a legitimate top-10 G5 Champion, they'll likely still lose because they'll be playing a true road game against a top-5 team. 

Conversely, if OAM and I are wrong and the G5 Champs routinely win their first round games that will put pressure on the committee to rank them more highly.  Ie, if the first couple G5 Champs in the CFP are #12 seeds that knock off #5 seeds, the G5 Champs that come after that will get better rankings.  Then even the shakier ones will have a MUCH better chance because instead of being the #12 seed and getting a true road game against a top-5 team they'll be a #5 or #6 seed and get a home game against a team outside of the top-10. 
It may be doubtful the 12-team CFP will last long enough for this, but my position is that we'll have to wait something like 10 years to REALLY get a handle on the answer to this question, maybe longer.  

There are anomalies in statistics and sometimes the outliers come in clusters.  If the G5's win their first two CFP first round games that MIGHT be indicative that they are as strong as some here are asserting and they'll keep that up and go at least 5-5 in first round games over 10 years or those two MIGHT just be the two outliers and after 10 years they'll be 2-8.  

Conversely, if the G5's get smoked in their first two CFP games, that MIGHT be indicative that they are as weak as @OrangeAfroMan and I are asserting and they'll keep that up and be lucky to go 1-9 in first round games over 10 years or those two MIGHT just be 40% of the losses that they'll sustain in 10 years and they'll end up 5-5 in the first 10 years of first round games.  

Ie, I'm saying that I will neither claim to have been proven right nor admit to having been proven wrong after the first two years of 12-team CFP's.  

Cincydawg

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #541 on: July 19, 2021, 12:10:23 PM »
My impression is that it is not yet formally approved but that it appears to be inevitable. 
Mine as well, I just wonder if this is a done deal, and in what year it would happen.


medinabuckeye1

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #542 on: July 19, 2021, 03:48:23 PM »
Mine as well, I just wonder if this is a done deal, and in what year it would happen.
According to this article from CBS Sports, the CFP Board of Managers approved a feasibility study which will be conducted over the summer in advance of theiir next meeting in September.  

I found this interesting:
"Media rights sources have valued a 12-team playoff at approximately $1 billion per year.  The current contract between the CFP and ESPN averages $600 million annually over 12 years through 2025."  

It isn't clear from the article but I *THINK* those figures include the other, non-playoff games arranged by the CFP.  

Finally, the timeline proposed is approximately what I guessed earlier:
  • CCG's:  Unchanged so first Saturday in December, December 1-7
  • CFP First Round games at the home stadiums of the top four teams other than the top four league Champions (top four league Champs get a bye) two weeks after CCG's:  December 15th - 21st.  
  • Quarterfinals:  NYD Bowls
  • Semifinals:  "approximately 10-14 days later".  I'm not sure what that means and I think it is a misstatement.  I would *ASSUME* that they will pick a day of the week and play the semifinals on that day but at least 10 days after the quarterfinals which would end up meaning January 11-18.  
  • Championship:  Nothing stated but I'm assuming they would keep it on a Monday only now it would be in late January.  



Gigem

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #543 on: July 19, 2021, 04:37:13 PM »
The thing that most of you are missing is that the whole of the NCAA will be soon changing as the divide between the have's and the have nots will get bigger and more insurmountable.  The whole structure of D1 D1-A or FCS FBS or whatever silliness they have now will go away and there will be a permanent split.  

The amount of money flowing into college sports is about to accelerate greatly, and that will affect recruiting.  The schools that can pay the most, either through alumni with NIL dollars or other sources will soon separate themselves from the mid-to smaller schools that can't draw those dollars.  

My belief is that this whole G5 vs P5 will be about a 6-8 year period, after that we will go to a super league where only the biggest schools with the most money/boosters will compete with each other.  There's simply not enough players to sustain the middle/low tier schools to compete.  

FearlessF

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #544 on: July 19, 2021, 04:46:44 PM »
we've been talking about the demise of the NCAA for 20 years

hasn't happened yet
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: SI Says 12 Team Playoff Likely w/ 6 At-Large
« Reply #545 on: July 19, 2021, 05:23:54 PM »
The thing that most of you are missing is that the whole of the NCAA will be soon changing as the divide between the have's and the have nots will get bigger and more insurmountable.  The whole structure of D1 D1-A or FCS FBS or whatever silliness they have now will go away and there will be a permanent split. 

The amount of money flowing into college sports is about to accelerate greatly, and that will affect recruiting.  The schools that can pay the most, either through alumni with NIL dollars or other sources will soon separate themselves from the mid-to smaller schools that can't draw those dollars. 

My belief is that this whole G5 vs P5 will be about a 6-8 year period, after that we will go to a super league where only the biggest schools with the most money/boosters will compete with each other.  There's simply not enough players to sustain the middle/low tier schools to compete. 
It is plainly obvious that Memphis/Cincinnati aren't going to be able to keep up with Bama/tOSU, I agree with you that far.  

The complication, I think, is that Vanderbilt and Illinois aren't going to be able to keep up either.  

Therefore, it isn't simply a question of cutting the G5 loose, the split you are talking about is basically the dozen or so helmets vs everyone else.  

Also, I'm not sure how big of a change this ultimately will be.  Endorsement type deals (NIL) aren't going to mean BIG money for most players even at a place like tOSU.  Instead, you are going to see big money for the starting QB's and a few other well known starters at Bama, tOSU, etc.  Then, I assume, the gaming systems will either have to come up with some way to compensate all CFB players or else drop ID's.  Who knows how that will work out.  For everybody else (even at Bama/tOSU) there isn't going to be a lot of money (I think).  

The competitive advantage issue for the Tide and Buckeyes is that the BEST QB's and the BEST Linebackers and whatnot will get more money at Bama/tOSU than they would at Vandy/Illinois/Memphis/Cincy.  My guess is that a LOT of HS recruits have an optimistic (or inflated) view of themselves and will *THINK* that they are going to be superstars so they'll want to go to Bama/tOSU because there is more money in that for the superstars.  Some may actually cost themselves money because you'd probably get a lot more NIL money as a starter at Vandy/Illinois or even Memphis/Cincy than you would as a bench warmer at Bama/tOSU.  

I'm thinking it is going to be a while before we really see the ramifications of this.  

 

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