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Topic: Should playoff teams be expanded?

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Should playoff teams be expanded?
« Reply #154 on: December 16, 2018, 09:22:08 PM »
idk, I think most programs would rather visit Miami Dade or Broward county recruiting rather than play a game up in Madison.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

TyphonInc

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Re: Should playoff teams be expanded?
« Reply #155 on: December 17, 2018, 07:56:36 AM »
We ain't going back to 2, and if they simply expand and still take the "8 best" I'd hate that, but assuming it's 5-1-2, I'd prefer that over the current model, which has IMO created a scenario with the least possible number of meaningful games.  I'll sacrifice a little significance in losses to create more significant games.
...And this is my biggest reason for trying to 6 instead of 8. We CAN'T/WON'T go back. 
Bowls determined the Champion --> 2 played in the BCS for the champion --> 4 play in the College playoff for a champion --> what's next? Money dictates to keep growing.

There is an option to back out of the of the 4 team playoff in 2022 (or let it continue till 2026.) Why not let a six team playoff have a run for 6 - 10 years and just see how good or bad it turns out? 

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Should playoff teams be expanded?
« Reply #156 on: December 17, 2018, 08:05:16 AM »
This is absurd.  People would take into account their multiple seasons of being undefeated and let them in.  You're not being realistic here.
OAM, I agree with you for the most part in this thread, but I disagree with you here.  I DO NOT think that UCF needs more consecutive wins, I think that they need better wins.  I've pointed out repeatedly that they managed to go 13-0 this season with exactly ZERO wins over teams ranked in the final CFP rankings.  I think that makes it obvious that their problem is quality not quantity.  

TyphonInc

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Re: Should playoff teams be expanded?
« Reply #157 on: December 17, 2018, 08:07:17 AM »
But yet even if something is a waste of time, you might enjoy it.  Both can be true - it's a waste of time AND fun exploring.  Have I suggested people stop posting in this thread?  
All I've said is the decision-making stakeholders aren't likely to want to change, that's all.  Pffft.  I'm such an ass.
Hey, he's starting to get it.

bayareabadger

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Re: Should playoff teams be expanded?
« Reply #158 on: December 17, 2018, 08:14:33 AM »
OAM, I agree with you for the most part in this thread, but I disagree with you here.  I DO NOT think that UCF needs more consecutive wins, I think that they need better wins.  I've pointed out repeatedly that they managed to go 13-0 this season with exactly ZERO wins over teams ranked in the final CFP rankings.  I think that makes it obvious that their problem is quality not quantity.  
The issue remains the same. They need better non-conference wins. And they need at least two very good ones. And they need the good programs they play to go on to good seasons. And they need a very weak No. 4 seed. And they need a team that good. And even then, we’ll hear about how they haven’t played anyone in months. 
The system will not allow for this without a particularly odd set of circumstances. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Should playoff teams be expanded?
« Reply #159 on: December 17, 2018, 08:27:51 AM »
I just want an SEC team (a good one) to do a home/away with my school. I know. Too much to ask.

Hell, I would bet a paycheck (it's a good one) that a good SEC team would turn down a 2 for 1 with my school.
Do think Georgia would turn down a H&A series with Wisconsin?  Why?  The only reason would be scheduling issues.  UGA agreed to a series with Ohio State (since cancelled) and ND.  I don't know of a reason they would turn down Wisconsin prima facia if the scheduling worked.
They have scheduled teams all over the place.

Cincydawg

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Re: Should playoff teams be expanded?
« Reply #160 on: December 17, 2018, 08:29:12 AM »
I recall when Boise State was trying to make noise.  They agreed to a one and done in Athens, and later to a neutral site game (sort of) in Atlanta (which they won).  I rather think FSU did the same back in the day, as did Miami.  If you want to make a splash, you have to tug on Superman's cape a few times and not worry about fair.

847badgerfan

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Re: Should playoff teams be expanded?
« Reply #161 on: December 17, 2018, 08:54:02 AM »
Do think Georgia would turn down a H&A series with Wisconsin?  Why?  The only reason would be scheduling issues.  UGA agreed to a series with Ohio State (since cancelled) and ND.  I don't know of a reason they would turn down Wisconsin prima facia if the scheduling worked.
They have scheduled teams all over the place.

Ohio State
Notre Dame
Wisconsin

One of those is not like the others.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

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Re: Should playoff teams be expanded?
« Reply #162 on: December 17, 2018, 09:40:46 AM »
They also have games with Virginia, UCLA, and Oregon, not to mention Texas and Clemson.

If they schedule UCLA H&A, why not Wisconsin?

847badgerfan

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Re: Should playoff teams be expanded?
« Reply #163 on: December 17, 2018, 10:17:59 AM »
They also have games with Virginia, UCLA, and Oregon, not to mention Texas and Clemson.

If they schedule UCLA H&A, why not Wisconsin?
It's been bantered about before. It's viewed as a no-win deal for a lot of schools. UW is not a helmet school, so losing to them is not acceptable and beating them is expected. That, and as has been mentioned here, Wisconsin is not perceived as a fertile recruiting state like California. 

(UW has UCLA on H/A schedule in the future.)

The Virginia and Oregon games are at a "neutral" site in Atlanta, Georgia.

Still, congrats to Georgia for heading to the West Coast for the first time since JFK was walking on Earth.

:96:
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Should playoff teams be expanded?
« Reply #164 on: December 17, 2018, 10:45:52 AM »
Why is 8 the right number?  Why not 16?  Why not 6?  It's so arbitrary.  It'd be random if cubed numbers didn't exist, which is hilarious, actually.  And if 8/130 teams (6%) is the right number, then why does every single other sport have way more than that in their playoffs (NFL 37.5%, NBA 53%, MLB 31%)???  If the best answer to that is "because it's more than 4", then that's embarrassing.  
It is always arbitrary but I'll tell you that I prefer a smaller percentage to a larger percentage in general.  
I never watch NBA regular season games or first round playoff, even when Cleveland was good.  There is a simple reason why:  With more than half of the teams going to the playoffs, the regular season is meaningless.  
As a Cavs fan, I look at it this way:  If the Cavs ARE any good, I'll watch them in the second round of the playoffs and thereafter.  If they aren't, then I didn't miss anything by not watching the games before that.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Should playoff teams be expanded?
« Reply #165 on: December 17, 2018, 10:53:32 AM »
Instead we've settled at some awkward place in the middle, where a single loss doesn't feel as monumental, but we still end the season with these awkward conference championship games where one team is just a spoiler.
We ain't going back to 2, and if they simply expand and still take the "8 best" I'd hate that, but assuming it's 5-1-2, I'd prefer that over the current model, which has IMO created a scenario with the least possible number of meaningful games.  I'll sacrifice a little significance in losses to create more significant games.
As an Ohio State fan, I have plenty of experience to refute this:
  • In 2015 Ohio State lost only ONE game but it turned out to be the ONE game they couldn't afford to lose.  That ONE loss was very much monumental.  Also, that season unlike 2018, Ohio State looked like a NC team in their other 12 games.  If they would have lost one of their OOC games (VaTech, Hawaii, NIU, WMU) or any conference game other than MSU (or possibly Michigan, depends on tiebreakers) they would have gone to the B1GCG, been a HUGE favorite in Indianapolis, and likely sailed into the CFP.  
  • In 2018 Ohio State lost only ONE game but it cost them a CFP slot.  With a win over Purdue and a 13-0 record the Buckeyes would have been an OBVIOUS CFP selection but that one loss was monumental.  

That colors my view of the current CFP.  One loss isn't as monumental as it was under the BCS and in the pre-BCS era but it can still be fatal.  If you went to 8 with auto-bids then OOC games and at least one non-divisional game per year would not be a big deal to lose.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Should playoff teams be expanded?
« Reply #166 on: December 17, 2018, 10:59:10 AM »
But ever since OU got lambasted by KSU in the XIICG that one year and still made it into the BCSNCG, it's all felt wrong.  Or I don't know, Nebraska getting pantsed and still playing Miami for the NC, whichever happened first.  That was the beginning of this new college football regular season, in which no one loss is particularly damning.  Now, you team loses, you shrug.  Still in it, still able to achieve all our goals without angels parting the Red Sea.  
Nebraska was the first BCS-era team to get smoked in their last game and make the CG anyway, Oklahoma was a few years later:
  • In 2001 the Cornhuskers went into their season-ending game with Colorado at 11-0 and lost 62-36 in Boulder.  That loss kept the Cornhuskers out of the B12CG because they finished tied with the Buffs who then lost to Texas.  Nebraska went on to the BCSCG where they lost (badly) to Miami in the Rose Bowl.  
  • In 2003 Oklahoma went into the B12CG at 12-0 and got smoked by Kansas State 35-7 but they were still top-2 in the BCS rankings so they went to the BCSCG where they lost to LSU in the Sugar Bowl.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Should playoff teams be expanded?
« Reply #167 on: December 17, 2018, 11:24:25 AM »
I wonder if the voting breakdown has anything to do with being a fan of a helmet vs non-helmet.  
I understand my viewing lifetime has coincided with by far the best run Florida has ever had, but that being said, I do not want an environment in which Florida loses and I shrug my shoulders, knowing we're still in it for the NC.  If you're a fan of a helmet (or elite team in your lifetime), you know that feeling of dread and angst on the rare occasion your team loses.  If your team peaks at 7-5, you don't know this feeling.  It's what made the college football regular season mean something.  You knew that once you lost, you'd need some conspiracy theory stuff to happen bam-bam-bam for you to have any way back to the NC...and sometimes it happened!!
This is an interesting thought.  I think my experience is similar to yours.  I'm an Ohio State fan and alum who started at Ohio State in the fall of 1993.  Prior to that I was a fan, but not anywhere near at this level.  Part of that is because I hadn't gone there yet and part of it is because Ohio State wasn't all that good when I was in HS:

The Buckeyes almost won the NC in 1979 when I was a todler and that was followed by Earle Bruce's seven year run of three loss seasons.  The team went 9-3 each year from 1980-1985 then 10-3 in 1986.  Those were all good seasons but none were great.  Then 1987-1992 was probably the worst six year stretch for the Buckeyes since WWII.  Over those seven years when I was in Jr. High and High School the Buckeyes went 1-5-1 against the Wolverines and only once lost less than four games in a season.  

From 1993-present the Buckeyes have easily the best overall record in the sport and just from recollection they have been in the NC discussion more often than not.  I've always looked at CFB through that lens.  I well know that, as you put it, "feeling of dread and angst on the rare occasion your team loses."  

I also chuckled when I read your comment about knowing that once you lost, "you'd need some conspiracy theory stuff to happen bam-bam-bam for you to have any way back to the NC."  I well remember, for example, after losing to MSU in 1998 looking at the next AP Poll and then looking at the schedules of all the teams ahead of the Buckeyes and figuring out the most plausible NC scenario for Ohio State:
  • After the loss to MSU, Tennessee was #1 but still had a pretty good Arkansas and the SECCG
  • KSU was #2 but to be honest I didn't really believe they were all that good and they hadn't played Nebraska yet
  • UCLA was #3 but they still had USC and Miami
  • Florida was #4 but they still had FSU and they probably couldn't win the SEC anyway because they had already lost to TN
  • Florida State was #5 but they still had Florida
  • aTm was #6 but they still had Mizzou, Texas, and the B12CG
  • Ohio State was #7
With this newfangled BCS (1998 was the first year of the BCS) the Buckeyes didn't need them ALL to lose.  Ohio State could get to the BCSCG as long as five of the six teams ahead of them lost.  It almost happened:
  • Tennessee won out* and went to the BCSCG
  • KSU lost the B12CG to aTm
  • UCLA lost to Miami
  • Florida lost to FSU
  • FSU won out and went to the BCSCG
  • aTm lost to Texas

*Tennessee was the one that was oh-so-close.  In the Arkansas game a week after Ohio State's loss to MSU the Volunteers looked to be absolutely done.  It was time to stick a fork in them and the proverbial fat lady was warming up her voice and checking the mic and then Arkansas managed to find a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.  
« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 11:33:05 AM by medinabuckeye1 »

 

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