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Topic: Second CFP Rankings

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Second CFP Rankings
« Reply #42 on: November 12, 2021, 06:14:08 PM »
Quote from: FearlessF on November 12, 2021, 01:27:11 PM
recruiting rankings are not scientifically proven

example:  Clemson
Can we stop pretending that one exception negates an entire point?!?  Aren't we all better than that?

Quote from: FearlessF on November 12, 2021, 02:01:50 PM
good tool for projecting quality, not for assigning the top 4 most quality teams in any given season
No one is suggesting this, besides Ali Wasserman or whoever.  It's stupid.  There are thousands of inputs into any given season, so not any one single input is going to magically be the answer/key. 

You know what, I want Cincinnati to get in.  People keep bitching about it, let's just let them in and watch like the ancient Romans did.  The carnage a big-boy program with the NC up for grabs will put on the Bearcats can shut everyone up about it.  Their high school schedule, lack of depth, and 2nd-tier everything does, in fact, make them a 2nd-class program.  A G5 program. 

I'm tired of their putting up a good fight vs motive-less teams in consolation bowls.  Put them in front of the train and see if they can stop it.
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MaximumSam

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Re: Second CFP Rankings
« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2021, 07:09:44 PM »

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Do you think it just might be a little easier when you can spend an extra week or two game-planning for a game because you don't have to worry about the team before them?  
Well, to my point - if it was easy to go undefeated against a G5 schedule, we should see a lot of teams do it. It's not that easy. But the biggest point is that to some degree you are right - P5 teams win all ties because they have a tougher schedule. But at some point we have to acknowledge the reality - playing a tough schedule, by itself, doesn't mean you are a better team, that you deserve more, or whatever else. You have to actually go out and perform and win. OSU has a great chance to get in the playoffs if they win out. If they don't win out...just throw them in anyway because they are Ohio State and played a tougher schedule?
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MaximumSam

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Re: Second CFP Rankings
« Reply #44 on: November 12, 2021, 07:10:25 PM »

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The carnage a big-boy program with the NC up for grabs will put on the Bearcats can shut everyone up about it. 
LOL. 
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ELA

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Re: Second CFP Rankings
« Reply #45 on: November 12, 2021, 07:43:08 PM »
I'd be totally fine with an undefeated Cincinnati getting hammered.  Happier than having an SEC runner up win an NC honestly
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FearlessF

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Re: Second CFP Rankings
« Reply #46 on: November 12, 2021, 08:50:05 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 12, 2021, 06:14:08 PM
Can we stop pretending that one exception negates an entire point?!?  Aren't we all better than that?

I can easily provide many more examples - see the Texas Longhorns


No one is suggesting this, besides Ali Wasserman or whoever.  It's stupid.  There are thousands of inputs into any given season, so not any one single input is going to magically be the answer/key. 

You know what, I want Cincinnati to get in.  People keep bitching about it, let's just let them in and watch like the ancient Romans did.  The carnage a big-boy program with the NC up for grabs will put on the Bearcats can shut everyone up about it.  Their high school schedule, lack of depth, and 2nd-tier everything does, in fact, make them a 2nd-class program.  A G5 program. 

I'm tired of their putting up a good fight vs motive-less teams in consolation bowls.  Put them in front of the train and see if they can stop it.


Thanks for making the same point.  It's stupid for suggesting this.  I want Cincy to get in as well.  They can play Georgia.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Second CFP Rankings
« Reply #47 on: November 12, 2021, 09:03:00 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on November 12, 2021, 07:09:44 PM
Well, to my point - if it was easy to go undefeated against a G5 schedule, we should see a lot of teams do it. It's not that easy. But the biggest point is that to some degree you are right - P5 teams win all ties because they have a tougher schedule. But at some point we have to acknowledge the reality - playing a tough schedule, by itself, doesn't mean you are a better team, that you deserve more, or whatever else. You have to actually go out and perform and win. OSU has a great chance to get in the playoffs if they win out. If they don't win out...just throw them in anyway because they are Ohio State and played a tougher schedule?

It's not about ease of going undefeated - that's actually an argument against Cinci.  It's only hard to go undefeated against their schedule because they're on the same plane as the programs on their schedule.  
Have Ohio St play their schedule.  For every simulation the Buckeyes beat ND, they basically automatically go undefeated.  Cincinnati can't say that.  
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Second CFP Rankings
« Reply #48 on: November 12, 2021, 09:04:10 PM »


Yes, a motivated Georgia with no players sitting out for the draft.  

For Cincinnati, be careful what you wish for.  
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MaximumSam

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Re: Second CFP Rankings
« Reply #49 on: November 12, 2021, 09:06:33 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 12, 2021, 09:03:00 PM
It's not about ease of going undefeated - that's actually an argument against Cinci.  It's only hard to go undefeated against their schedule because they're on the same plane as the programs on their schedule. 
Have Ohio St play their schedule.  For every simulation the Buckeyes beat ND, they basically automatically go undefeated.  Cincinnati can't say that. 
Yes, but see, your argument is about a simulation, not the actual results of the games that are actually played. So for you to have an argument, you need to admit that the games don't matter.
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MaximumSam

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Re: Second CFP Rankings
« Reply #50 on: November 12, 2021, 09:08:00 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 12, 2021, 09:04:10 PM

Yes, a motivated Georgia with no players sitting out for the draft. 

For Cincinnati, be careful what you wish for. 
Oh no they might get run over like every single other team Georgia has played. Perhaps they should have cancelled the SEC this season, as well.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Second CFP Rankings
« Reply #51 on: November 12, 2021, 09:19:39 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on November 12, 2021, 09:06:33 PM
Yes, but see, your argument is about a simulation, not the actual results of the games that are actually played. So for you to have an argument, you need to admit that the games don't matter.
Why do I need to pick either/or???  Of course it's not JUST talent vs game results, it's both.  It's coaching, depth, play-calling, injuries, etc.  Looking at the schedule rankings on previous posts, the 9th-toughest opponents for P5 teams align with around the 3rd-4th-toughest for Cinci.  It's a joke schedule.  

So yes, 11-1 or 10-2 vs a vastly deeper schedule is better than undefeated against that schedule.  No one likes to hear that, but it's true.  That's why computer rankings systems have an 8-4 team over an 11-1 team.  It's not that the games don't matter, but the opponent matters, too.  What is 4 wins vs teams ranked in the 100s????  It's a layup.  It's playing backups in the 3rd quarter.  It's meaningless........again, not something anyone wants to acknowledge, but if you want to label it "the games don't matter," then for those, specifically, no, they do not matter.

So if 2 of OSU's games don't matter and 5 of Cincinnati's don't, where are we?  Cincinnati hasn't played nearly as many losable games.  And if you disagree with that sentence, then you're acknowledging they are a lesser program.  
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Second CFP Rankings
« Reply #52 on: November 12, 2021, 09:20:33 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on November 12, 2021, 09:08:00 PM
Oh no they might get run over like every single other team Georgia has played. Perhaps they should have cancelled the SEC this season, as well.
I'm dying for Cincinnati to get in.  Why are you chomping at me?
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

MaximumSam

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Re: Second CFP Rankings
« Reply #53 on: November 12, 2021, 09:33:31 PM »

Quote
So if 2 of OSU's games don't matter and 5 of Cincinnati's don't, where are we?  Cincinnati hasn't played nearly as many losable games.  And if you disagree with that sentence, then you're acknowledging they are a lesser program.  
But that brings up the great question - do you actually hold, you know, the results of the games as something that matters. I know it is unpopular to actually look at the results of the game, as opposed to what we think should have happened, but at some point there is no point to sports if we continue to not care about the results of the games. This stuff against Cincinnati is based in simulation - Cincinnati shouldn't compete with the Georgia's and Notre Dame's of the world, and if they do, it is due to some sort of other mystical reason. At some point, we have to expose that idea as the complete joke that it is. They play the games, the results matter, and anything else is just noise.
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FearlessF

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Re: Second CFP Rankings
« Reply #54 on: November 12, 2021, 09:48:07 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 12, 2021, 09:04:10 PM

Yes, a motivated Georgia with no players sitting out for the draft. 

For Cincinnati, be careful what you wish for. 
well, motivation and having players available is Georgia's problem
no excuses
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ELA

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Re: Second CFP Rankings
« Reply #55 on: November 12, 2021, 09:58:11 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 12, 2021, 09:20:33 PM
I'm dying for Cincinnati to get in.  Why are you chomping at me?
Because people arguing against Cincinnati being in, are setting up the straw man argument that they are going to get blasted once they get in. I simultaneously would prefer an undefeated Cincinnati getting in over a conference runner up, while acknowledging that they would probably get absolutely blasted. Probably by more than an SEC runner up
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